Alpha: We are interrupting here to introduce a subject on Shankaracharya, page 672 & 673. This is a magnificent, magnificent section . We are talking about Monadic rays, as usual.
In the Footnote: “The great sage Sankaracharya who is known to us all as the leading head of the adwaitic movement that was set on foot subsequent to the time of the equally great Sage known as Gautama Buddha, the head of the doctrine of Buddhi or Buddhism. Both are great Masters of compassion and may be conceived as the two hemispheres of the burning globe of light that is placed on the central mental mount to impart light to the East and the West. The two great Masters are mystically connected, if you will listen to H.P. B., and to understand the natures of these two beings is to understand the nature of the entire cosmos divisible as two hemispheres, the one being the land of the sun-rise of thought eternal, and the other being "the Pillar to the West upon whose face the rising sun of thought eternal poureth forth its most glorious waves." They are representatives-for us-(the poor children of the dust of the ground) of the two great powers known in the Puranas as Siva and Vishnu, the universal sower and reaper, who by their interaction are said to support the universe of progress. – Some Thoughts on the Gita, pp. 92-93”.
It is quite clear who is Shiva and who is Vishnu. Right? I don’t know if I brought my Agni Yoga book, but right there it is the drama of Vedanta vs. Buddhism. Vedanta has for its greatest exponent Shankara, and Buddhism, Buddha. And Morya says of Buddhism, he says, it studies the vehicles and their interrelationships. Obviously it is the whole second ray thing. And Shankara studies enforced homogeneity. That is the law of synthesis. It is called the law of enforced homogeneity, and that is Shankara. And if you read his tiny little book here, which I did bring along because I am never without it [The Vivekachudamani]. This whole book is about enforced homogeneity … the whole point is that if you don’t dissolve everything into nothing you’ve missed the point of your life.
Beta: So that is why that practice is found in Buddhism [kalachakra?] … everything is dissolved into nothing at the end of the [ceremonial sand painting]. It is never left out. All the benefit that accrues (karmic benefit) ... accrues from the performance. Also [the sand?] is handed and out and dissolves into [the water].
Alpha: And I am sure there are aspects, after all the Buddha does have a first ray aspect to his nature. Because you know Shamballa and the Buddha are connected, and let’s not forget that Shamballa gives the first ray aspect of the second ray. And that, Sanat Kumara may be a being of will because he is profoundly second ray, as greatest of the Saviours on our planet, because he is a direct disciple of the Solar Logos who is second ray.
Beta: And there is another statement that says that the first ray is anchored in the heart. … The true first is anchored, which means the hierarchy, second ray, is anchored in the head.
Alpha: Yes, second ray, consciousness is anchored in the head. ... interesting reversal. There is also the peculiar statement by Leadbeater (which I don’t know if it can be given any credence) where he says (almost a bizarre statement) that Master Morya and Master Koot Humi are changing monadic rays. It is a peculiar statement. He says that the Master Koot Humi is really focusing upon the first ray and Master Morya is focusing upon the second ray, monadically. I don’t have the exact quote. … Leadbeater is saying this. But, it has to be compared with the statement which is made, that the monadic ray remains the same throughout the aeon and does not change. Now that is a ...
Gamma: How about the cycle of the monad which is 200,000?
Alpha: Yeah. I have a question about that in our agenda sequence. (We will get to that in about five years.) This 250,000 years is a monadic cycle. However, monadic cycles occur in three’s and one’s; soul cycles in seven’s and three’s; and personality cycles in four’s and seven’s. You know we could start putting all that time information together with a number of cycles. The problem is we don’t know the pralayas. We don’t know how long out of cycle an entity stays. And, that is the whole problem with that connection.
Gamma: You know, I made the real thing about the pralaya. Because I calculated the amounts it takes for a Solar system to evolve, our solar system. And the pralaya which existed between the past solar system and our solar system is about 200 million years, or something like that. And then I compared to the cycles given in Cosmic Fire about the Manu, and there is a moment where it is a small pralaya and corresponds, in terms of ratio, exactly to pralaya between solar system.
Alpha: See there is something ... It is very interesting. I think that, actually, Gamma you have an interesting destiny connected with time.
Gamma: Yeah. I think that, one of my next subjects is to look through everything the Tibetan said about time. Because the last thing I showed you in those readings we have on the antahkarana, there is one statement about time which is so ‘out of this world’, you know. You wonder what it means.
(several voices)
Alpha: So, now the seven Heavenly Men, as far as we are concerned, are more or less in the category of Planetary Logoi. Or at least it is either an aspect of -- the seven-foldness of a solar entity? Or a solar being? We all know, think we know. what the Planetary Logoi are, more or less what the Seven Heavenly Men are, right? We could get into a very extended conversation about this but …
Delta: Well, what happened to the logoi of the moon chain? … didn’t this resonate, not just in our own situation, but through the whole solar system? It wasn’t just a local situation here it was involved with other things within the solar system, but also in the Pleiades?
Alpha: But it only resonated because of the effect on the Planetary Logos, right? OK. But that is the whole mystery of the moon chain factor. Look, are we ready to move on with the seven Heavenly Men?
Delta: Maybe the moon chain logoi are in jail now somewhere? … mishandling of funds!
Alpha: OK. If we want to get technical it would be a moon chain regent. Right.
Delta: But how is that relevant to us, in other words, the head of the moon scheme … wouldn’t there be a moon scheme?
Alpha: No. There is no moon scheme; it’s a chain phenomena.
Delta: ... the moon chain regent is in jail.
Alpha: ... well there is a connection, there is a definite connection.
Delta: Well, there’s a little spot on Saturn.
Alpha: Yes, in Agni Yoga they talked about the spot on Saturn being prepared for the ‘baddies’. You’ve read that haven’t you? … I don’t think those words were exactly used. By the way, you know the seven Heavenly Men are analogous to chains. The seven (or ten) Heavenly Men are analogous to chains if you consider the solar logos, to be part of a greater scheme.
Beta: Right.
Alpha: So, we think we know something about a round when it comes to our chain. At least, theosophy has made us think we know something about that. But we know very little about what you might call a scheme round. And it is quite interesting that, if you go up to the level of a solar system, when you look at a Planetary Logos, you have a chain there. And the development within the solar system must proceed on the basis of rounds. And if it proceeds on the basis of rounds it involves all the chains. Sequentially, or simultaneously? (a big question) ... or both.
Beta: ... and on what level?
Alpha: ...yeah. On what level.
Beta: ... because we know that the chains dip down into matter. And then come back out.
Alpha: Apparently so. Now here is another big question. You have a sun here, you call it a solar logos and it is part of, more or less, part of a seven fold constellation and it is one of them. And it is visible. Now you know what I am going to say, that you have these six other solar systems and they all have visible suns, apparently. If in a scheme, you have seven chains, but only one of them has a physical globe. If that is so then when you look at the sun and say it is part of the chain, it is the physical globe of how many other fellow suns who have no physical globe? … So, when you are talking about the seven solar systems, or the Sirian system, one of them may have a bunch of physical suns in it. But the other may be a description for a solar scheme the only chain of which that has a physical sun is ours.
Beta: Our solar system Or our solar scheme?
Alpha: Our solar scheme is not a solar system. … A solar system is one chain of a solar scheme. You have a planetary scheme and a chain within.
Delta: A solar system is just one chain of a planetary scheme …
Alpha: Yes. And I am analogising to the fact that any planetary scheme has only one physical globe. … Therefore any solar scheme has only one visible sun. … And so what is the nature of these other entities that are the chains of a solar scheme?
Delta: Well those are the locas ... Bhur, Bhuvar, Svar, Mahar, Janar, Tapas, Satya.
Alpha: Locas? OK. ... I just don’t know …
Beta: That is down here too on earth as well.
Alpha: OK. But you see there is a very important thing going on here … which is to realise there are two kinds of things going on. We talked about the seven solar systems, apparently we think all of them have a visible sun. And they are informed by a great entity.
Delta: As a thing is viewed, so it appears, so we think it is visible, yeah.
Alpha: Well. Maybe it is visible. Maybe Alcore, or Beta Centuri ... maybe Procean, or …
Delta: Well we will proceed as visible even if it is invisible.
Alpha: OK. But maybe it is visible. … I am talking about two different kinds of things. One of them is a solar system with seven visible suns. And the other thing is a solar scheme that each one of those visible suns is part of. Each one of those visible suns is part of a solar scheme. And so you have ...
Beta: At that point you have ten schemes, seven or ten schemes.
Alpha: Yeah. If you have ten planetary schemes then you have ten chains in a solar scheme, at least by analogy. And he definitely says there are ten chains to a scheme – not just seven. And let me end it by simply saying I don’t know the nature of the beings who are chains, just like our Solar Logos is, but have no visible sun. Is there such a thing? … there has to be solar chains just like there are planetary chains.
Epsilon: Why do you assume there are chains without visible … ?
Beta: ... a human only shows 1/7th of their nature, a planet, only 1/7th …
Alpha: OK, let’s turn to page 385, notice forty-nine different globes, seven different chains, and only one system which has a concrete physical globe.
Epsilon: It is ours.
Alpha: Yeah. I am likening that to the sun. I am saying that the sun is a chain. In other words, our sun is part of a, well, my God, there is the whole idea of the seven suns. There are going to be six subjective globes that correspond to our sun. And then beyond that the subjective chains, six of which do not have a visible sun. And what is the nature of those beings? So there is a mystery there. Now unless, ‘as above so below’ does not operate (the Tibetan does say that), remember you are only seeing 1/7th of any incarnated life.
Beta: These things, ah, it is so important to write them down because they’re so difficult to express.
Delta: That is why I think its worth expressing it in terms of the locas.
Alpha: See, I don’t know very much about those.
Beta: Well, the locas are tied in with the brahmanda, purana, and the brahmanda scheme. The egg of Brahma which is a solar system ...
Delta: Here it is … I have another diagram from something else ...
Beta: .... during the deluge, or during the pralaya, the Brahma in charge of that solar system ...
Delta: Oh yes, it has the thing from the Gayatri, Bhur, Bhuvar, Svar … it goes up to Mahar, Janar, Tapas, Satya. And then it has all the different globes in it.
Epsilon: This has to deal with one planet. No?
Delta: Yes, but by analogy it would work with the solar systems. … Notice how the bottom right hand corner has Bhur, Bhuvar, Svar, Mahar, Janar, Tapas, Satya.
Alpha: Yeah. Well, all I am saying is, what is the name of these. We are told about seven solar systems, but whereas we have the Neptune chain, the Venus chain, the Saturn chain, Earth, Mars, Mercury, whatever ... You don’t hear a thing about the accompanying chains of the Solar Logos. Look, there can be a Solar Logos, our Solar Logos might just be the lord of the solar chain, and there might be a superior Solar Logos, whatever it is, that is the lord of the whole solar scheme.
Beta: And do these solar rounds, how do they proceed? Did they proceed from within one septenary system of seven visible suns? Or do they actually take seven or ten of these, seven constellations? And go from one sun to the other?
Alpha: OK. Well, here is the same question. Let me draw it on the board here. You know, frankly, it is obviously diagrammatic and therefore limited to the linearity of human mentality. But, when you have the usual diagram it goes like this and these are chains, you know and by the way DK really described them differently, doesn’t he. He arranges them differently, which is really interesting, you know.
Beta: Right, he does. Usually with a trinity and a quaternary, yeah.
Alpha: OK. Each one of these is a chain. Now, so we think we know what is going on down here, we think we have been given to understand in the simple Theosophical version and it goes like this: seven times. So that’s simple.
Gamma: And then one of them is physical.
Alpha: And yeah. And this is physical. … This so far is called as a chain round. And this is what we think we know about. OK. Now, I also have a reference to a scheme round.
Beta: ... it’s not easy to figure out how it fits into pralaya …
Alpha: OK. Well that is good. What you are now doing is drawing a scheme round. ...what he is saying, this is a scheme round, like a circle. I have never seen it drawn before, but so far, so good.
Delta: I think in the solar system that _____ has diagrams like that.
Alpha: Lets look at the solar system. … Now, here is the question. After every round comes a pralaya, of a kind. Is that pralaya one that lasts while the fifth chain experiences its first round, the sixth chain its first round, and so forth. And then when seven is finished do we have something called the inner round here in which there is like total subjectivity?
Beta: And what if human consciousness can only sustain itself, a fragment down here, like a little tiny (inaudible) the bottom most (inaudible) maybe in one root race or two in the third and fifth.
Epsilon: Now are those chains going on one after the other?
Alpha: Well, this is another question. You see, there is a simultaneity ... The other possibility is this. This kind of thing. (Draws...) Or, there is another possibility of seven going at the same time. The question is, you would not have a scheme round would you? Lets look at two other possibilities.
Beta: All of these rounds must happen simultaneously, right? ... in a sense.
Alpha: Well, we know that our rounds don’t happen simultaneously ... Our local round does not happen because we are given durations and we are told long ago, and this and that. It would seem a tremendous long time to wait while it circled through all of these others; a tremendous long time between the first round and second round for that to happen. This is one possible diagram.
Delta: This is one of many suggested diagrams, in this book, I mean many diagrams are suggested.
Epsilon: Maybe they don’t go always at the same speed and maybe the speed accelerates.
Alpha: Sure, this accelerates. But let’s not lose our train of thought here. Name your objections to the following: let’s just draw it like this, you know what I am going to do here, Why would this be objectionable? like this (draws) and so forth, in sequence.
Beta: Those are usually called world periods.
Alpha: ... this to me is a world period. From here ... to here. One seventh of a round. This is a chain period.
Beta: Yeah but he says that each globe has a world period in a sense.
Alpha: Each globe has a world period? Our world period is now undisclosed.
Delta: Why would that be objectionable? I would only object to the idea of it being sequential.
Alpha: OK. Good. Why do you object to it being sequential here when you don’t object to the sequentialness of this?
Delta: Here is why. By analogy within our selves, we are seven chakras and it isn’t like the base of the spine becomes a 100% unfolded, then the sacral becomes 100% unfolded, then the solar plexus becomes 100% unfolded, etc. So, it is true each of these chakras has its own way of cycling through its full development. But the development is going on in all the chakras simultaneously ... to some degree.
Alpha: Yes, I agree with that. Because we cannot have a system in which we have complete unfoldment of one chakra before you move to the next; however, you have to be able to have simultaneous unfoldment but not of all the chakras in the same degree. Because there are whole chakras that are ignored in terms of their unfoldment until later, whereas they simply put on a maintenance level in the early days of evolution.
Delta: Maybe that goes back to a statement, some in three rounds, some in five, some in seven and some (snaps fingers) do it like that, and some take longer.
Beta: Well I was just thinking that if you stack these instead of arrange them in a circle you might have a spiralled cyclic round. It takes place simultaneously with the orbital rounds. … A forward round might be solar and Sirian in nature, the spiral cyclic might be solar in nature, and then the chains and rounds as Blavatsky described them would be truly planetary. … I am thinking that if you have cycles of activity and vitality based around the sun say, through the seven planets and through synthesising schemes that take place constantly, you could have a round that comes into the chain like this (draws) and while you have this other ....
Alpha: OK. So this would be a solar kind of round. … It would touch all parts of a planetary scheme once and then move on to something else because the planetary chains would be like globes.
Beta: Right. It would touch what it could and evoke the response that it could until the next cycle.
Alpha: Yeah. OK, now what is the analogy to the fact that the base of the spine centre unfolds rapidly in a certain aspect, but not completely until the end. What is the analogy of the fact that you have a great unfoldment of the sacral and solar plexus centre for many, many years until they are almost completely unfolded, whereas the heart centre and the throat centre may be ignored until later. How do you factor in this the ignoring of the higher centres into the diagram of rounds?
Beta: Yeah, why does the planetary entity allow millions of human beings to die and be rewarded without awakening those centres. … Whole lifetimes go by without the centres being awakened. A person just has the lower centres active, and they drop dead and have to reincarnate again and again and again.
Alpha: See, and we are just to the point where we can come back to what Delta was interested in yesterday.
Beta: Ah, so this ties in to the chakras, certainly.
Alpha: To the chakras, it ties in to the chakras. You see, so the development of rounds must tie in to the unfoldment of the chakras. Now, in order to do that we have to look at a solar system and say, this planet is this chakra, that planet is that chakra, right? Now, that is the first thing. Then we have to look at a scheme and say, this chain is that chakra, this chain is that chakra. And then we have to look at the same on the chain level and say these are the chakras. And if we can do that and we can analogise from the human etheric unfoldment and from the unfoldment of the egoic lotus, we can figure out which one should unfold faster, and then we can figure out a pattern of movement that will make them unfold faster. So in a way, it is kind of a break through there in terms of looking at the esotericism of rounds from the cycle point of view, from the timing point of view. As below, so above, in this case.
Well, it even strikes me that it is possible (I hate to think of it) but ... it’s a vague thought ... If we knew which ones of these corresponded to (flet’s just look at it the way DK looks at it), if we knew which ones correspond to the lower chakras we could have four or five circles going in a first chakra, drop off, go the next one and do one or two, then fly through the next on a single, come back and then just fly thorough and finish off these over here. Then go on to the next. Fly through. In other words, the rounds don’t have to be regular sequential and always of the same duration. We can develop one centre through more attention while just developing the later centres ...
Delta: And is what I think of as the geometric unfoldment of the centres where it talks about it being different for each ray. …
Alpha: OK ... that has a relationship to the rounds and the globes. … Depending on the monadic ray of the entity that is manifesting here, so will be this periods of development. So maybe this is terribly misleading to put these all in a big circle like this. Maybe we should be able to pass from one to the other for certain cycles, leave off without finishing, and go to another one that requires stimulation, for maybe less or more cycles. We get all of the lower chakras to the point of full unfoldment and then concentrate on other chains, which have been sustained all the time by just life energy but have had no particular rounding development. …
Delta: So there is a statement page 357 Cosmic Fire. It says each scheme as each human centre will … a, b, c, d, e & then it says f... Well, let me do e first.
“e. Be connected in geometrical formation with certain other centres of Heavenly Men, making systemic triangles.32
“f. Be characterised by different stages of activity according to the initiation towards which the Logos may be working. Thus, at one period one centre or Heavenly Man may be the subject of logoic attention, and of specialised stimulation, and at another period a totally different scheme may be the object of vitalisation. For some time the Logos has turned His attention to the Earth Scheme and to Saturn, whilst Uranus is receiving stimulation. Much is therefore accentuated, and increased evolutionary development is the consequence of this divine attention.”
(many voices)
Alpha: There, as a matter of fact, just the same way that you would like in astrology to throw out certain of the knee jerk responses as to how to interpret, we might have to really rethink the whole question of how rounds occur, in a way that is much more interactive than this plodding kind of, here we go ... round and round we go.
Delta: Yeah
Alpha: There is a kind of sequentialness to it, but it may not be a regular sequence and there is a simultaneousness to it, and yet it may not be equal activity. Two things going on at the same time but not of equal activity. For instance, the stuff going on right now, the logos is turning his attention to the Earth Scheme … or maybe the Earth chain to a certain extent. But he is concentrating on Saturn too and what else did you say?
Delta: Uranus.
Alpha: And Uranus. So who knows what is going on there in a stimulated way and not going on elsewhere? This to me has been a breakthrough thought, you know, to think in this way.
Beta: Saturn ... antahkarana. If it is exoteric/esoteric antahkarana on a solar level. And is stimulating Uranus [for?] the next solar system … That is the mental permanent atom.
Alpha: Yeah. OK. I see what you are driving at. Beta throws out these things that represent a synthesis of thoughtform, and they come out in about three sentences. And you have to say ... wait. It takes an hour to unravel it. But that is assuming of course that Saturn is antahkarana.
Beta: Right. For the time being.
Alpha: Saturn—Uranus, I can see.
Gamma: This would be reflected in our system right here ... in the (inaudible) of Shamballa. ... (inaudible) Uranus.
Beta: Right.
Delta: So there might be a manasic stimulation (page 200 of Esoteric Astrology), basically it says that the Earth and Uranus were the product of the previous solar system and third ray activity. So this intuitively hints towards manasic stimulation and possibly trying to transfer off the cosmic astral plane onto the cosmic mental and get in touch with Sirius.
Alpha: OK. But you said Earth and Uranus were the product of the previous solar system? Is that what it says? … Well that must mean that the personality ray of Uranus has a lot of three in it. And so does the personality ray of earth, and that they manifested in the last solar system according to the personality ray primarily ... or developed that.
Beta: Or, Yeah ... interesting.
Alpha: OK. The point is simply this, this to me is a break through area which ties the chakras directly in to planetary and solar unfoldment. And if we could figure out which schemes represented which chakras, which I think we should do, and we could compare that to the fact that the solar logos is half way through ...
Gamma: That is what you did.
Alpha: Yeah. That is what I did. In a fit of madness. But, now I don’t know if I can substantiate it.
If we could say the Solar Logos is half way through his system, and as a second ray soul, and if a man who has a second ray soul is half way through his development, what chakras would be unfolding? What triangles would be receiving stimulation? We might be able to see what is going on the different schemes. The big question is, are there some schemes (some chains), on which there are no rounds going on at all? See, what does a round really do? Is there such a thing as development without a round? Am I getting into a third ray jungle here? Or ...
Delta: Probably, the crown and base of the spine activity is minimal at first in terms of the rounds.
Alpha: Yeah, tell you what, there are three aspects to every chakra. (He goes into this in Rays Five). There is the third ray aspect which he said the theosophist dealt with in the early literature; there is the second ray aspect; and then the jewel, in every system. So it may well be that something like the base of the spine undergoes very strong rounding out on the third aspect of it and then just stops. …
Delta: I agree. He also says somewhere that physical kundalini has risen and we need to raise our mental kundalini, which would be that same idea that all the chakras have had the third aspect worked through but need the other aspects ...
Beta: Well, this is very interesting too. It ties in to the statement that the standard of the petals of the chakra relate to the planetary level. But the second level, or the soul, operates through triangles or triangulations. And then the third level would operate in terms of the jewel.
Alpha: Well, that is interesting. So that the petals are there as a foundation and there is a triangulation between the petals? In other words, interactiveness between the petals?
Beta: Right. Between chakras. Also between petals, yeah. Definitely. It also would allow for these outer rounds.
Delta: The petals are the chains.
Alpha: Lets find that in Rays and Initiations.
Beta: There is one in Telepathy too ...real detailed.
Alpha: He says, everybody knows how to unfold the outer part of the chakra.
Delta: Ah ... I don’t know
Beta: Oh ... I’d love to see it.
Alpha: ... Rays and the Initiations, Epsilon, we just studied that ... or was it DINA II. We are looking for the fact that there are three aspects to the centres. And the jewel aspect of the centre is the one that he says has not been given out up to now, but now it is being given out how to awaken the jewel aspect of the centre. … while you are looking for that I want to make a point that I am liable to lose. …
Now what I am going to say is that the rounds themselves involve probably three aspects of divinity. And that you cannot systematise the length of a pralaya because it is quite possible that you could have three rounds on a particular planet and develop the third aspect. And that you could have a pralaya that would last a long, long time, until it is time for the next aspects of that chakra to be developed. It could zoom off and develop a whole bunch of other things for quite a while and only later come back to rounding out the particular chakra. And, you know, when we have this very kind of pedestrian sequential attitude …
Delta: No. ... and by analogy also reincarnation is like a musical symphony, a certain theme might come in at the beginning, but might disappear for a while and then come back in at a certain point.
Alpha: Absolutely. And that is the variety, you know, you give it to the woodwinds, you give it to the clarinet, right?
Beta: You can’t imagine how much resistance there is to that in some of the theosophical groups.
Delta: Oh, cause people like the linear stuff?
Beta: Yeah. Right.
Alpha: Oh I can imagine that ... but if everything is ground on and ground on, you know.
Gamma: In this egoic lotus, there are so many mysteries in this. Page 23. We see those lines and group of petals. And, for example the line which comes from astral heart centre, which goes to the mental solar plexus and goes to petal of love and continue to (this is most amazing). Any of us solved that problem here? … Look at those lines here, going to the petals, and going to God knows where.
Alpha: Well, you see, that makes sense. It is an alternation. It goes love, solar plexus, love. So, in other words, it goes 2 to 6 to 2 to 6. Right? This is going on to a heart centre isn’t it? … I bet when it is finishes going to the astral heart centre it’s going to go to the physical solar plexus centre. Seems to alternate. …
Delta: Well, it seems like the next question, both micro and macro-cosmically, is we have these seven chakras having various levels of stimulation. How does that tie in with the twelve petalled lotus, the egoic lotus for us or the solar system’s twelve petalled lotus? … So, in other words, the astrology of that twelve petalled lotus ... effects the unfolding of those centres in a certain way.
Alpha: Microcosmically, what centres in the man are unfolded as the egoic lotus unfolds? OK. That is first.
Delta: Exactly.
Alpha: Or, from another point of view, presumably the head centre, (the heart centre within the head centre) or the superior twelve on top of the head are unfolding according to chakric activity in the lower system.
Delta: OK. There is an interaction.
Alpha: OK. Now, if we can discover what twelve are unfolding on top of the head, as the chakras here unfold in the body, as the egoic lotus unfolds on its level, microcosmically, we can transfer the whole thing over to the macrocosm and say as certain planets are busy – what is the zodiac doing in terms of its own development?
Oh wait, we have a problem I just jumped a level, because the twelve petalled head centre of our Solar Logos is not the same as the zodiac. The zodiac is a twelve petalled centre in such a great being that we would have to ask ourselves what is going on in the Great Bear, in the Pleiades and in Sirius and in Draco and Orion that is going to make the zodiac unfold? Now, am I correct or have I a mis-correspondence?
Delta: That is correct perhaps, but, in other words these twelve (inaudible) reflect through all the levels, is all I am proposing.
Alpha: So that we start with man.
Delta: Let’s start with ... (inaudible) ... grounded here ... we would never go up to the other twelve.
Alpha: We have a twelve here and we know zero about it. This the human zodiac right here. However we know something about the egoic lotus which is also a zodiac. And we know, we can make a connection between the egoic lotus and our own chakras on the lower planes.
Beta: That is interesting. In terms of that twelve. Sometimes he said it is a twelve petalled lotus in the head and a thousand petalled, sometimes he says it is the twelve petalled heart centre of the head centres.
Alpha: OK. Repeat.
Beta: Sometimes he said the twelve petalled lotus in the thousand petalled lotus, sometimes he says the twelve petalled heart centre among the seven head centres.
Gamma: Yeah. There are different levels.
Delta: Well, one might be the horoscope based on the sun sign the other might be the horoscope based on the rising sign. Although it goes to separate twelves, one would be the sun.