Alpha: After lunch on the 23rd of May an attempt to summarise what we may have accomplished in the morning would be to say we listed the names of many entities in cosmos. I am going to read a few of them because I know this was not on the tape and it will tape very quickly.
- Solar Logos
- Three Lords of Aspect
- Seven Heavenly Men
- Forty-nine Regents
- Lord of the Globes
- Forty-nine Root Manus and seed Manus
- Seventy-seven embodiers of form
- Planetary Spirits
- Spirits before the Throne
- Spirits of the Planets
- Planetary Entity
- Three varieties of OAWNMBS
- Ray Lords
- Sons of Fohat
- Brothers of Fohat
- Buddha’s of Activity
- Buddha’s of Love
- Buddha’s of Will
- Kumaras (Five or one hundred and five)
- Sanat Kumara
- Avatars ... three or four varieties
- Manasadevas
- Divine Manasadevas
- Deva Raja Lords of Planes
- Solar Entities
- Nirmanakayas
- Dharmakayas
- Sambhogakaya
- Creative Hierarchies
- Grand Heavenly Men
- Thanes
- Dhyani Buddhas
- Buddhi [sounds like] softras
- Divine Kumaras
- Silent Watchers
- Like’s
- Seven Kingdoms
- Solar Pitris
- Solar Angels
- Solar Lords
- Lunar Pitris
- Lunar Angels
- Lunar Lords
- Buddhas
- atoms
- man
- Agnishvattas
- Agnisuryans
- Agnichaitans
- elementals of several varieties.
- Sephiroths
- [sounds like] Gandarvas
- Egoic Groups
- Christ
- Cosmic Christ
Alpha: So, we listed all these entities, not by any means the totality of what we might think but enough to get us started. And be began to think whether to put them on planes or not. But, we decided instead to define in brief ways the Solar Logos, the Three Lords of Aspect and the Seven Heavenly Men.
When we reached the Seven Heavenly Men and the forty-nine Regents of the Chains we began to discuss the matter of schemes, rounds, globes and chains. And we were interested in the development of these different systems and it occurred to us that there were solar schemes just the way there are planetary schemes. And in the solar scheme the solar system would merely be a globe. And there would be six additional solar chains in the solar scheme of which our sun and its six subjective globes would be just one chain. And then we started to talk about the movement of development. And it began to occur to the group that instead of strictly sequentially method of development, whether in the globes or the chains or the schemes, it might be a whole lot more like the chakra system. And in the human chakra system different chakras unfold at different rates of speed. And the higher chakras unfold much later than all the others, even though they are alive and well. So we began to look at rounds, or the correspondences to rounds, as the means of promoting the unfoldment of the planetary chains (which are chakras) and the planetary schemes (which are chakras) and instead of thinking that everything proceeds in a nice sequential manner globe after globe after globe, and round after round, we began to think that it may be occurring in a much more interactive sense than purely diagrammatic sequential method.
After all, how do the chakras in a human being unfold? They unfold in a manner which takes into consideration the science of triangles and the different rays of the monad and maybe the rays of the soul. They proceed in their own unique manner. And maybe within a globe system, maybe within a chain system, maybe within a solar chain they proceed in the same manner. So we decided that we would begin to discuss the unfoldment of the human chakra system, (looking at the) various petals of the human chakras in relation to the twelve petalled etheric chakra on the top of the head, and in relation to the egoic lotus (because each of those is a zodiac).
Then attention was drawn to page 47 of Esoteric Astrology where the Tibetan talks about energy globes from a group of twelves: “a. The egoic twelve petalled egoic lotus on the cosmic mental plane." … and that is pretty interesting, by the way calling it a twelve petalled lotus because we noticed earlier from a different reference that Beta read out to us that it was seven tiers of petals, apparently, in the egoic lotus. So, we need the Cosmic Fire reference there as well. I can’t think of where that was particularly (maybe page 1164, possibly, maybe we can find that later). But that is a very important point because it is apparently a contradiction. Anyway ...
a) The egoic twelve petalled egoic lotus on the cosmic mental plane.
b) The solar twelve petalled lotus. Now that means we are probably dealing with the solar system viewed as a twelve petalled lotus. And that may be corresponding (who knows) to the etheric centre at the top of the head. I am not sure. Then...
c) The planetary logoic heart ...also a twelve petalled lotus. We are going to discuss this.....
d) The twelve petalled human egoic lotus on the mental plane and
e) The twelve petalled heart centre in a human being.
The planetary logoic heart may well be a hierarchy or a spiritual hierarchy of some kind. So our plan of attack now is to somehow discuss the unevenness and the unfoldment of the chakras in the human system and then try to compare it with something like the chakras in the solar system which are represented by the different planets.
We have, also, as a group, to try to give our impressions of which planets are which chakras in our present solar system. And in this way we thought we could tie together the whole concept of laya yoga, chakralogy, cosmic structure, and the interactions between the different entities that we have on the board.
So, I think that takes us, in terms of a summary, to where we are in terms of the developments of this morning’s work.
Delta: The reference on page 1161 on Cosmic Fire, where the seven tiers of petals are mentioned.
Alpha: OK. And if we look at a logoic twelve petalled egoic lotus on the cosmic mental plane, and yet somehow we have seven tiers of petals, we have problems. We have serious problems, conceptually, because there is no way to get seven tiers of petals and fit that into a twelve petalled lotus. So there must be an explanation somehow. Unless we are not talking about the same lotus. What do you think? If we look at page 1161 of The Treatise on Cosmic Fire, it looks like the same lotus on the cosmic mental plane?
Delta: It might be a different lotus on the cosmic plane.
Alpha: “A solar Logos uses for His energy centres the planetary schemes, each of which embodies a peculiar type of energy, and each of which, therefore, vibrates to the key of the logoic solar Angel, of which the human solar Angel is a dim reflection. It is interesting here to note that as the human solar Angel is a unity, manifesting through three tiers of petals, the logoic correspondence is even more interesting, for that great cosmic Entity demonstrates on the cosmic mental plane as a triple flame working through seven tiers of petals, and it is the energy from these seven circles of energy which pulsates through the medium of any scheme.”
Now, this is profound and I suggest that Shamballa comes out of this entity. In other words I suggest that Shamballa is a Will centre on our planet. But the number of Shamballa is 24. And I suggest that there is a strong possibility here with seven tiers (let’s assume maybe of three petals each, ok, lets just assume that) plus the triple flame, the number is also 24. And we know that Shamballa is formed in relation to the sun. And this is the egoic body of the sun. I don’t know if there is a jewel there or not. If there is the number is 25, which is also interesting because 25, according to Stephen Pugh, is the number of our solar system, then it’s the number of the second ray, 25, somewhere. OK. But there is a real interesting statement here.
“A solar Logos uses for His energy centres the planetary schemes, each of which embodies a peculiar type of energy, and each of which, therefore, vibrates to the key of the logoic solar Angel”
That means each chakra in the human system vibrates to the key of the solar angel. I am taking it down onto the microcosmic correspondence.
Epsilon: Alpha, is it appropriate to explain why 25 is the number of ray 2?
Alpha: I can’t remember how he did it, frankly, but was a straightforward explanation and it showed how it was connected somehow to the number four and how, because of the 25 it related to … the hierarchical conclave four times in a century. As a matter of fact I have Stephen Pugh’s sample book here and if anybody is interested they can check that out. It is on one of these tables here.
… Look (referrring to SDP’s work) 2.5 is connected with the number of the fourth ray. And the assumption is that our solar system, being a solar system of the fourth order, is peculiarly connected with the number four and maybe even rules the .... well this is system that is offered here. Our solar system, according to this, is supposed to be number four of the seven solar systems. And hence 2.5 is the number of it. And he explains that there are cycles of two hundred and fifty years, twenty-five hundred year, etc. like that, and even the whole idea of our solar system revolving around the Pleiades once every two hundred and fifty thousand years, that we have a great age of twenty-five thousand years,...and even roughly our processional years are twenty-one hundred and sixty (whatever). He is correlating this with the number 25.
Gamma: This would be almost the cycle of the monad.
Alpha: Exactly. Exactly. And the monad is that which has its place within the sun, has its home within the sun. (Initiation Human and Solar). So that if the monad has its home within the sun, it is connected with the number four, twenty-five, and so forth, the monad … would have therefore the cycle which corresponded to two hundred and fifty thousand or some kind of multiple by 10 of 25. OK, so now, here we are at the point where we want to relate the unfoldment of our chakra system. … to try to understand enough about that and its timing so that we can relate it to some larger systems which involve astrological factors.
Gamma: You know I was thinking about the ____ … You know that our system is made of the previous solar system. So, which means that the previous solar system was also a globe which was in the physical. How do you go with this thing here?
Alpha: U-haa. So that is going to be an entirely different manifestation of a different solar chain. In other words you would say, it preceded our solar system; therefore it was the preceding chain so it should be part of the same solar scheme.
Gamma: Oh yeah the preceding chain ...
Alpha: ... but I am looking at wiping the whole thing out ...
Gamma: ... the preceding globe?
Alpha: .... the preceding glob, like the moon? … Well, what I am trying to say, as the moon chain is to our chain, the Tibetan has says that there is a kind of remnant of the third solar system hanging around, that that its matter is concentrated in Saturn and it is in a sense a solar systemic moon. So, in other words, it is to the solar system as the moon is to our chain. And he says that matter is concentrated in Saturn (the influences) ...
Gamma: He is not talking about this matter here?
Alpha: Yeah. But it is something similar to that. All we have to do is look up the word moon and we have got it. You know. Moon, mystery of, revolution of,
Delta: Pause ...?
Alpha: Pause.
(tape pause)
Alpha: ... let’s do it, page 1112. “There is the energy reaching directly to the knowledge petals from the manasic permanent atom. The permanent atoms of the Spiritual Triad, as well as the bodies which are built around them, bring in certain groups of deva lives which have not as yet been much considered.”
Yeah, we said that, didn’t we? We said there is hardly any consideration of deva lives connected with the triad.
“They are not the lunar pitris, as that term is commonly understood, but have a direct connection with what is called "the cosmic moon" or to that dying solar system which has the same relation to our system as the moon has to the earth chain. This "cosmic moon" transmits its energy to the manasic atomic subplane, via the planet Saturn. It is a triple energy and there is an esoteric connection between this triple energy, and Saturn's rings The old Commentary expresses this truth about an interesting group of sons of manas as follows:”
Well, I don’t know if we need to get into this just as the moment. But there is some place, isn’t there, where it talks about the concentration of the remnant matter of the first solar system as related to Saturn?
Beta: Related to Saturn? I am not sure it is related to Saturn. I think it is just before one of these charts ...just after the right hand side of one of these charts. Maybe ... something on 845.
Alpha: What does it say.
Beta: “It might here be noted that the planetary Entity is the sumtotal of all the elemental lives of the lesser Builders functioning as, or forming, the substance of any particular globe in physical objectivity. The mystery of the whole subject lies hidden in three things:
First, the fact that our three planes, physical, astral, and mental, form the dense body of the solar Logos, and are therefore not considered as forming principles.
The second fact is that the lesser "lives" or the elemental essence are the "refuse" of an earlier system, and react to inherent impulses so powerfully that it was only possible to control them through the dynamic will of the Logos, consciously applied. [.....skips a few lines and resumes] These "lives" have been gradually drawn in during the entire manvantara as it became safe......”
Then it mentioned that the lunar Pitris in the twelve evolutions (.....the twelve evolutions are after all the twelve types of energy).
Alpha: Well, that is not the reference that I was thinking of, but there is something about what is concentrated within Saturn. And it is not only that Saturn is the transmitter, “transmits this energy to the manasic atomic subplane via Saturn”. It is real interesting that it is a triple energy.
Beta: Is it … is the seventh ray there too?
Alpha: I don’t recall that. But, maybe. It seems to me that Saturn has a lot to do with concentrating refuse of the previous solar system.
… You know what is really interesting is that the spiritual triad is a personality. That is energy from Saturn and from the dying moon is a triple energy. So you almost begin to think that the Spiritual Triad which had its highest permanent atom on Saturn’s plane, the atmic plane, and that somehow that triple energy is involved with the personality aspect of the monad. You know what I am saying, that we have learned here that there is a transmission of energy through Saturn and it is a triple stream and that it affects the Spiritual Triad. So it seems to me that because the triad is a personality, and Saturn is connected with the personality, that Saturn is transmitting that energy to the triad, because the triad is essentially, in terns of the monad, just a material thing.
Alpha: OK. … If there is anything more about the cosmic moon, ah did it say cosmic moon or is that one of those things that just hit me? Is it cosmic moon?
Gamma: It is in the reference.
Beta: Yeah. 1120.
Alpha: Yeah, but it is in the references? I mean, he is saying that? … I found the cosmic moon on 1112. But I want to find this other reference to Saturn, which I think is very important (unless I am just making it up; you know that can sometimes happen too, but I don’t think so.) .... “transmits its energy to the manasic” via the planet Saturn. No, it was a different statement. OK. let’s look at this: (continues with the Old Commentary on page 1112.) "These Sons of mind clung to the old and dying form, and refused to leave their Mother. They chose to pass into dissolution with her, but a younger son (Saturn) sought to rescue his brothers, and to this end he built a triple bridge between the old and new.”
Hence, this is why you call the antahkarana connected with Saturn. “… he built a triple bridge between the old and new. This bridge persists, and forms a path whereon escape is possible. Some escaped and came to the help of the incarnating Sons of Mind who had left the Mother for the Father. The greater gulf was bridged. The lesser gulf persisted, and must be bridged by the living Sons of Mind themselves." So Saturn seems here to be connected with the higher antahkarana.
Gamma: Who is this that left the mother for the father?
Alpha: In other words, Saturn is connected with the triad which in a way is considered a bridge. A bridge from the monad to something else.
Beta: Well, the higher antahkarana is the antahkarana connecting the three permanent atoms of the triad and not the three lower. That is only in the sense of synthesis associated with the lower antahkarana, between the mental unit, the causal body and the manasic permanent atom. … And then the higher is triad between the three permanent atoms of the triad.
Alpha: And the triad is a bridge. It is a bridge between periodical vehicles.
Beta: Yes. It is associated with the sutratma. … whereas the lower is usually associated with antahkarana, but they take place simultaneously to a certain extent. It is just that, you know the higher focus, the higher polarisations of the duplicity … its a process … that the higher polarisation takes time to achieve its higher focus through the sutratma. There is a point at the third stage of the sutratma where the sutratma and antahkarana are working together and then later they work as a unit. And later on either its called the sutratma, or at least it has been in the past …
Alpha: You know it is interesting, that Saturn-Jupiter conjunction that we saw last night in Alice Bailey’s chart, Jupiter in relation to Gemini gives a higher synthesis you know, in other words, it’s the union of Monad and the soul. I forget how he said it exactly, anyway it is involved with the higher synthesis and Saturn here seems to be ruling the higher aspect of the antahkarana or at least the triad considered as an aspect of the sutratma, by connection. And the two together are a bridge.
Beta: And its at this stage it becomes sort of planetary in nature too, to a certain extent. Or is a connecting link of some sort. It may not be the planetary antahkarana, the group antahkarana is built in the sixth subplane
Alpha: OK. Well every one of those statements requires a whole investigation. A whole investigation. Alright, so, we had come to the point that we were asking what it is about the human energy system which we can say, in terms of its development/unfoldment through time that will tell us how the twelve petalled centre on top of the head unfolds considering it to be a miniature zodiac which is the reflection of the still greater zodiac which is the egoic lotus. So basically, we know something about the egoic petals, we read about them yesterday, and when they unfold and what goes on. We know that the twelve petalled head centre on the top of the head (page 168 or whatever it is in Cosmic Fire) should unfold in relationship to the twelve petals above, right? In other words there is an unfolding, every chakra unfolds, right? Well, no that is a question. Do all chakras that have petals – is a chakra different from a lotus? Ah, a chakra has a requisite number of petals but the way you tell about its unfoldment is its degree of activation, not that the petals unfold one after another. … their degree of activation tells you something about their state of development. But the egoic lotus is different because there is an unfoldment and an activation.
Gamma: Um-hmm. I just want to check something about the centres and it is quite accurate ... what characterises the advancement of a centre is through the jewel, which is at the centre which becomes more and more active. (I think it was in White Magic.)
Beta: It sounds like the kindling of the centres, but that must be higher stage I think.
Alpha: Well, suppose there are three aspects to the centres … and they are enlivened at different times. But the enlivenment of the centres corresponds to the unfolding of the egoic lotus. Now if we can get the connection between when the centres unfold in terms of the third aspect, second aspect and first aspect, we may we able to connect that with the unfolding of the egoic lotus.
Beta: We are only concerned more or less then with the heart centre? And with the heart that centres the heart, the triad.
Alpha: Well, we want to discover the function of the different planetary schemes in a solar system ...
Beta: We will have to look at it in more detail than I have.
Alpha: … said from the other end, the development of the centres.
Gamma: He gives an idea of the development of the centres in the system … but he never talks about the unfoldment of petals.
Alpha: No, not about the unfoldment of petals. Yeah, impossible to discuss this aspect of the unfolding of the centres, that previous to this it was not at all possible, but [we] want to find out if we can make some generalisations about the chakra system that are going to help us get into the higher system. Is that possible? Now, for instance Gamma, from your tabulation, what can we say about the unfoldment of the base of the spine, sacral centre and solar plexus centre.
Epsilon: Centre and chakra are synonymous.
Alpha: Yeah. Let’s say they are synonymous. In other words, let me just start with some statements that may or may not be correct.
Gamma: In Letters on Occult Meditation, (page 74, he divides the development of the centres in five periods in this particular case.) And he said:
“Period I: wherein the base of the spine is most active in a purely rotary sense and not in a fourth dimensional. The inner fire is focused on the vivification of the organs of generation and on the functional physical life of personality.
Period II—wherein the solar plexus is the goal of the attention of the fire and when the emotional counterpart vibrates synchronously. Two centres are thus vibrating, even though the measure be slow; the others are alive; pulsation can be seen, but there is no circular movement.
Period III—The divine fire now mounts to the heart centre and the three rotate in ordered measured unison. I would point out that the vivification of any one centre causes an accession of force in all...”
Alpha: Now, that is interesting because it relates to our higher centres. In other words ...every time we think about a human being, let’s think about what it might mean in the higher centres that we are somewhat aware of. OK. Continue ...
Gamma:
“I would point out that the vivification of any one centre causes an accession of force in all, and I would further point out that in the head are seven centres (three major and four minor) and that these centres directly correspond to one or other centre in the body. They are the synthesis, and, on the assimilation of their corresponding centre, receive themselves a corresponding acquisition of rotary power.
Period IV—marks the definite stimulation of the throat centre. All the creative activity of the three-fold man—physical, emotional and mental—is turned upward in service, and his life begins occultly begins to sound. [ ... skips a bit ... ] Co-ordination between the centres becomes apparent; rotation is intensified, and the centres themselves change in appearance ...”
Beta: At which stage? After the throat?
Gamma: ... at the throat, yes.
“ ... becoming unfolded, and the rotary movement becomes fourth-dimensional, turning inward upon itself.”
So there is an unfolding, in rotation, and the four dimension ...
Alpha: … unfolding, rotating, and four dimensions.
Gamma:
“The centres are then radiating nuclei of light, and the corresponding four lower head centres are equally alive.”
“Period V—marks the application of the fire to the head centres and their complete awakening.”
Beta: Yeah that is a great section … This really corresponds to the solar plexus shifting to the heart, the sacral to the throat. This sort of implies that very sequence, the base to the head. … So this transference of energies happens in this five fold stage which is quite fascinating. And its quite different. The sacral isn’t mentioned because it is quite implicit in the throat. And the head is identified at the very end. … But, because the base was so active at the beginning ...
Gamma: You know (perhaps in the description of the evolution of the centres), he says, at one time all the centres are raised into the plexus and the plexus is the clearing house, and then the plexus is raised to the head. And that seems to be following this scheme.
Beta: Yeah. Exactly. It is quite fascinating. I think I have always sensed that (I don’t know where I get this), I always feel like the solar plexus has a higher mission, probably because of its association with Neptune and also that Mars is involved at very high stages of initiation. The solar plexus is somehow used differently from a very high point. And it may be to do with Alta Major, or the head centres or something like this.
Gamma: And the intriguing point is that it has the number ten, you know. There is the number of perfection so I wonder if this is not only perfection of the animal kingdom but perhaps another type of perfection which is higher.
Beta: The mystery of the Kumaras. The mystery of the Kumara and Makara. Perhaps.
Gamma: That was the mystery of the crocodiles? … the solar plexus …
Alpha: That fits ... the personality.
Beta: Someone has said ‘occult’ in a blind, the upward pointing green triangle takes over the downward pointing red triangle. (That was out of the TS Schools.) … it is a blind ... we know the solar plexus has ten petals. … so they would never say that, explicitly.
Delta: It might be stylised with ... the interlaced double triangles in the centre of it though.
Epsilon: Alpha, could we summarise what happened, with Gamma’s reading ... and what ... ?
Alpha: We are starting now to look at the manner in which the human chakras unfold in time. What are their stages of evolution in which they unfold. And then we are going to try to connect that pattern of unfoldment with the pattern of unfoldment of the solar systemic chakras which are planets. And then if we are successful there we might be able to venture into less known areas such as the unfoldment of chains and the unfoldment of globes which are also chakras.
Epsilon: So what did we learn so far?
Alpha: We learned, with Gamma’s reading from the Letters on Occult Meditation that ‘a’ sequence of unfoldment .... See it is very important that we get this sequence of unfoldment in a generic sense. Not that we can get it totally accurately, but we need to know approximately what unfolds when because then we can … look at the solar system and say what planets can be activated when.
Now, something flashed in my mind for just a second. And it is simply this. Right now, all planets are chains. Is this correct? ... planets are chakras, and chakras are centres within a scheme that involves our sun in the position of Planetary Logos. In other words, a planet is to a chain as our sun is to the planetary schemes. Correct?
Beta: Well, this is very difficult. They are not being included technically. But they must be there in the body of the entity.
Alpha: OK. Well, he virtually said that there ten schemes within a solar system. However I am calling a solar system ...
Beta: ...if we added all the planets plus the invisible planets that would be too many.
Alpha: OK. Well, wait a second. Maybe and maybe not. Because what I want to get at is the following We know that earth is in its fourth chain ...
Where is that chart, page 693 of Esoteric Astrology. And, I want to make a point based upon our mornings discussion. … Earth is in its fourth chain, fourth globe. Jupiter is third chain, fourth globe. Saturn is third chain fourth globe. Mars fourth chain, fourth globe ... just like Earth. Vulcan is third chain, fourth globe ... hence it is physical. Venus is fifth chain, fifth globe. And Mercury is fourth chain, fifth globe.
Earth 4th Chain 4th Globe
Jupiter 3rd Chain 4th Globe
Saturn 3rd Chain 4th Globe
Mars 4th Chain 4th Globe
Vulcan 3rd Chain 4th Globe
Venus 5th Chain 5th Globe
Mercury 4th Chain 5th Globe
Now what are the implications of the fact that simultaneously, all of these planets, all of these planetary schemes, which are chains (a planetary scheme is a chain), what is the implication if we know that all of them are active at the same time? There is a big question in people’s minds if when they look at the Earth scheme (here is our Earth scheme with these chains) and they say, “Ah where is the Earth chain?” Are all the chains active, or just us? Now transpose that up an octave and take a look at our solar system as if it was simply a scheme with chains. And the planets are the chains. Right? And all the planets are active. They are active at different points of chains and rounds and so forth.
Gamma: Not only that but they have a physical body.
Alpha: Yeah, but that is a problem. That is a big problem. … Now, this is very interesting, because when you look at ... first of all forget Neptune; its out, Uranus is out … Why?
Beta: Well ... yeah.
Alpha: ... but notice that some of the fancy planets, Jupiter, Saturn and Vulcan, which are very sacred, are only in their third chain. And .... now Venus is this huge exception. Maybe we can talk about why that is so.
OK, you know what I am driving at here? ... that the different chakras unfold at different times. The lower chakras unfold faster and they should be more developed. Now, I am asking, Do the lower planets unfold faster? And should they be more developed than the higher planets?
Beta: You mean the triplicity as a principle from the higher planets.
Alpha: I am saying that the higher planets are farther in their unfoldment because the head centre and heart centre of the human being are farther behind in their development. Now, this tells us something about our solar god, and how far these chains are unfolded and how busy they are, and where they have progressed to tells us how far our solar god is.
Gamma: When you talk about the lower planets are they necessarily the lower chakras?
Alpha: I think so. But, now we could get into the very interesting sort of astral cosmological issue of what are the chakras in our solar system
Beta: This is very important to some extent. Because each of the planets and schemes will probably be associated with one of the principles and one of the higher vehicles, say the astral or the mental vehicle, or buddhic. So, a simile would be the human constitution ... when they begin all these considerable amount of tabulations on the chakras and the stages of development, she may be speaking probably the closest to the human, but then in others she may be talking about mental ethers mixed with astral ethers and the physical. (This was in LOM page 74. I mean there is a tabulation on 169 of Cosmic Fire, which talks about the chakra and the triangles that are active in each stage.
Alpha: Yeah. That is very important.
Beta: I’ve always focused on that, but only recently I have looked at LOM and become excited about that. I think maybe because there is more synthesis there. It is a very hard to tell in tabulating chakras also I’ve found the difficulty of finding citations for the astral chakras, there are for the physical but not …
Alpha: ... the mental
Beta: Not ...no. Queer! Except by implication.
Alpha: What page, 860, recall that reference the other day to the twelve petals on the different tiers.
Beta: Yeah. And there is one tabulation I just ran into right now which is on the structure of the centres … its 159, the structure of the centres in rotary motion. And this is what we discussed in terms of associating the centres with either rotary motion, spiral-cyclic, or forward of the jewel.
Alpha: This is like the LOM page 74, like that.
Beta: Right. There is another one in Telepathy, a very exhaustive one. ... it may be spiral-cyclic, I haven’t looked at it in this frame of reference. Ah ... spiral cyclic, or forward, or maybe it mentions all three. I think actually it mentions all three. But those properties of the chakras need to be distinguished because then they will give us a clue to what level the planet is in the planetary or the solar constitution. There may be a tabulation based on our planets polar opposite and then another one on our planet’s complement.
Alpha: I think the polar opposite is Venus and the complement is Mars.
Beta: I agree with the first. The second I have questions about still.
Alpha: OK. Well, he talks about our planet’s polar opposite, blah, bah blah … we are not saying, and then ten pages later, it says Earth, Venus and Mars.
Beta: That is one of the most fascinating triangles, Earth, Venus and Mars. What on earth does he mean by the planets on either side of the Earth? …