Fellowship of Cosmic Fire

We spent a great deal of time trying to determine the nature of principles, since we wanted to look at a chakra in the human system and a planet in a solar system, and determine what is the place of this chakra and this planet in their respective types of men. We thought we better take a look at what a man is (either a normal human man or a planetary man or a solar man). We figured we better know what a principle is, so we turned to page 262 of Cosmic Fire and discussed the idea of principles.

At first I had been entertaining the idea that principles were of the consciousness aspect of divinity, because indeed there are many principles, such as buddhi or manas, kama-manas and so forth, which seem to suggest that principles are reflective of the second aspect of divinity. But then (especially from page 264), it began to dawn on me that there are really twenty-one factors to consider in a human being. The sevenfold objectivity, which are the material forms; the sevenfold subjectivity, which is the psychic evolution; and the sevenfold spirituality, which is the life of the entity. And usually spirituality is not divided into seven, because we are not yet in the third solar system where there is a differentiation in spirituality. Usually it is considered to be a unity.

Anyway, we differentiated the seven aspects of spirituality and began to think that maybe principles were dynamisms coming from the first aspect of divinity. And that in fact, principles were the spirit, sort of modes of motion or modes of activity, or dynamics, from the spirit interacting with receptive prakriti and producing consciousness. So that the various principles as they are listed, (they are listed in so many different ways), but just to give you an idea of how they are listed on page 263, we have active intelligence, then love wisdom, then atma, then buddhi, then manas, and even two higher are suggested, the life of the Heavenly Man in whose body the human monad finds a place , and then the next higher, the life of the Logos in whose body the Heavenly Man finds his place.

Now all of these are considered to be principles, of subdivisions of monadic influence. And we figured that for each one of these there is a corresponding kind of consciousness. So the analysis was that atma is a principle, but atma is a dynamism which, interactive with the appropriate kind of prakriti on the atmic plane produces the kind of sentiency that we might call atmic consciousness, and so forth, on down the line.

So that was one rather extensive discussion, and the purpose of it all was to work out what is going on in any systemic man, whether it happens to be a human man or, in this case, the solar man. All of this is tending towards the purpose of trying to look at the human chakra system and the human constitution of principles, and then extend that to the solar system, or the solar man, which will reveal to us, perhaps, the place of the planets.

Some other time was spent at looking at some of the planets and seeing where they would be placed in the solar system, and we did look at Venus, Mars, Pluto and Earth and figured that one of the ways of thinking about them would be to place Venus as a logoic solar plexus, Mars as a logoic sacral centre, Pluto in terms of the base of the spine, and Earth possibly in the etheric position [spleen as pranic function]. We were beginning to discuss the heart centre and/or the throat centre and try to find a place for the other planets, all of this in order to shed light on our own chakric system, and vice versa.

The goal, perhaps, tonight ... is to look at the human chakric system and to find the correspondences in the higher solar system. So, one of the things we started to look at, if were to start from the human point of view, is how the chakras unfold.

Delta: Well, if I can just be an organising principle for a moment, we’ve already decided on the lower quaternary of the solar system. … Let’s go through the heart, the throat, the ajna and the crown, finish that off. And that obviously will reflect all the beings of the solar system to some extent. And have a tentative set of rulerships looking at that.

Alpha: OK. That reminds me of another thing that I was summarising before you came in. … What did we say ... Jupiter for the heart, and we started to talk about it but we didn’t go much further. And then of course there is the question of the higher solar plexus and the lower solar plexus.

Delta: Let is just keep it to the simple seven for the moment, and finish that off and then go back to the minor centers.

Alpha: We are already going to be beyond the simple seven because in order to include all the planets we are going to have to go into the head. In other words, we have to include the ajna centre, the heart within the head, and the greater head centre. We are going to have to do that in order to find the planets we need.

One point that maybe should be reiterated is, when you are looking at the Solar Logos and the Planetary Logoi you are looking at the sun and the seven brothers or whatever. And we decided that each one of them has its own principles. That Venus has its astral body, mental body, just like the sun has its astral body and mental body, and that Venus is not any of those bodies per se. Or that Jupiter is not any of those bodies per se. Jupiter has its own principles. Every planet has its own principles. And the sun, as its own kind of being the Solar Logos is not any of the Planetary Logoi and, in fact, has its own principles. I mean, this has important implications for the glib kind of assignment of the Planetary Logoi to the principles of the Solar Logos.

Epsilon: But they remain to be the chakras of the ...

Alpha: Yes, they may very well remain to be the chakras and associated with the principles of the Solar Logos, but are not the principles of the Solar Logos. In other words look at it this way, the Solar Logos has its own form of life and so does Jupiter and so does Venus and so does all the others. So that is its own; it belongs to it. You see, it is so easy to confuse that ...

Delta: So lets list the rest of the chakras in the sun, and that obviously has implications for all the other planets and beings and whatever.

Alpha: OK. … well starting from the top down ... which is easier ...

Delta: OK. Let’s start from the top down … this is just tentative rulership.

Alpha: Neptune represents the heart centre within the head centre. And it represents pure reason, and buddhi and the most powerful of the planets (I assume) in our solar system because of its second ray nature, because it has a cosmic monadic second ray nature (which is in Esoteric Psychology somewhere around page 420 ...)

Delta: Neptune is the heart within the head ... and the rest of the head ...

Beta: ... is Jupiter.

Alpha: Well. ... here is the point. We have to do something with Uranus; Uranus has association with the head. I am thinking when I think about the other aspects of that head centre. … I said Neptune was connected with the twelve petalled lotus. To me it is connected with the twelve petals ... at least that is a reasonable hypothesis, I think. And Uranus with the rest of the 960 petals which apparently (... on page 168) are secondary, although it depends on how you look at it. Up until yesterday or today and close reading of page 168, I always thought that the thousand petalled lotus was more important than the twelve that are found within it. … [end of tape].

Alpha: So the interesting thing is that although Uranus you might say is the most powerful planet in general and somehow has its head centre, you might say, pointed towards the Sun. Still we are in a second ray solar system and so Neptune maybe has specially prominent place. …

Gamma: Uranus sometimes linked to the sacral centre.

Alpha: It is linked to the sacral centre. And it has influence on the sacral centre, but I am trying to see which particular position is most characteristic.

Delta: So what about the ajna chakra.

Alpha: OK. Now ....see we got to see what we are leaving out, or leaving in. Probably Mercury ....you see, we have the alta major centre too. And we have Vulcan to deal with. And this is where it gets difficult, you know, for me, frankly. We have the throat centre, alta major centre, and ajna centre remaining …

Delta: What about Saturn for the throat.

Alpha: Well ...it is certainly possible to take Saturn for the throat.

Gamma: And also Saturn for the alta major.

Alpha: Well, you see...

Beta: That is true ... esoteric & exoteric.

Alpha: Saturn for the alta major. Both?

Gamma: I mean one would be throat ....

Beta: ... this was Dany’s idea too.

Alpha: Well Saturn definitely rules the alta major in the sense of the three synthesising planets. For instance, if you wanted to put it like this, that Uranus rules the whole head centre, and Neptune, the ajna centre, Saturn would rule the alta major centre.

Delta: I have this: Pluto, base of the spine; Mars, sacral; Venus, solar plexus; Jupiter, heart; Uranus, spleen. …

Alpha: There is a problem with the base of the spine. … The three in the middle are problematic. There is reason to put Mercury at the throat centre or at the ajna centre. There is reason to put Saturn at the alta major centre. Vulcan is a problem. Vulcan has to do with the throat centre, you can find a way perhaps to relate it to the ajna centre. So I really don’t know what to do with it there. And I think we should maybe explore that. You can justify Saturn—throat. Here is my problem with Saturn—throat.

Delta: Let’s put Vulcan—throat.

Alpha: Vulcan rules the parathyroids and it is connected with Taurus.

Delta: That was the part of Taurus over the astral. This is on page 78 of Esoteric Astrology.

Gamma: So this is the astral side of the throat.

Alpha: Yeah. But it is not the astral … It doesn’t say astral centres.

Gamma: No it is the astral. You know, when you raise ...I am saying when you raise the sacral centre ... the astral part of sacral centre ... you get into the parathyroids. And this is a transitory centre which is between the astral and the mental, see?

Delta: It says: “The five centres up the spine are related to the five non-sacred planets, but in unevolved or average man, are focussed almost entirely upon the astral plane and in the astral body.”

Alpha: Yeah. The five centres are focused on the astral plane, but what does that mean? That they are the astral centres or just that they are bringing through astral energy?

Delta: Well ... if someone is always on the astral plane I would imagine they are controlled more by the astral centres, and less so by the etheric centres.

Alpha: Well, DK says that the etheric centres take in all manner of energy. It just depends that your etheric body is carrying the kind of energy of where you are polarised. So if you are polarised astrally your etheric centres are carrying astral energy. If you are polarised mentally your etheric centres are carrying mental energy. It is not just saying the astral centres are the ones that are involved in … in other words, I am finding difference between that and page 51 of Esoteric Healing, where he gives you the astral centres. See, the etheric (and I don’t fully understand this) the etheric body apparently can carry energy from all different kinds of levels.

Beta: Isn’t that interesting.

Epsilon: At page 79 he says something about Vulcan. Do you want to hear it?

Alpha: Well, this one I know. This is what he just said. [Esoteric Astrology, page 79]: “This centre in the front of the throat falls into disuse as the creative period of throat activity begins. It acts as a "mediator" between the higher and the lower creative organs” OK.

Delta: Let’s just throw Vulcan in here just for the sake of argument.

Alpha: Look, there are some people who put Vulcan as ruler of the twelve petalled head centre.

Delta: Well, if everything is etheric in nature and Vulcan, rules the etheric ....

Beta: I would much rather put it with alta major …

Gamma: There is one quote about the throat centre, that the throat centre is double. When he talks about the plexus, he says, the plexus is the only one which is double, and then he says the throat centre is double.

Alpha: Does it relate to the fact of these parathyroids … is that correct..? So, it would have to have an etheric correspondence, and hence is double? Are there two parathyroid glands?

Epsilon: Yeah. That is what he says on page 78, last line.

Alpha: OK. So as the throat centre is to the thyroid gland, the etheric parathyroid centres are to the parathyroid glands. There is a triangle here. Well, you know that the thyroid gland controlled by the throat, so here are the parathyroids, so they must have an etheric counterpart too. So Vulcan maybe rules that.

Epsilon: It doesn’t ...

Beta: It is a temporary centre ...

Gamma: What I think is that Vulcan rules the parathyroids and Saturn the other one.

Alpha: Now, but Beta just said an interesting thing: let’s put Vulcan in the position of the alta major, why?

Beta: Because it is a transferring centre like the pranic centre between the shoulder blades transfers energies at a certain stage and bridges a certain gap.

Gamma: It is a physical centre.

Beta: Yeah. And the same would be, alta major. And then same with the centre above the head, it is a transferring centre. These are all transferring centres.

Alpha: ... centre above the head ... is that the crown centre, or something else?

Beta: I think that is something else, actually.

Alpha: So we need to differentiate.

Delta: I just want to leave you with two things Epsilon brought up ...earlier.

Alpha: ... the two many petalled lotuses. Yes, and don’t forget that Vulcan is given rulership over the head centre for disciples. And this is something that we really can’t afford to forget.

Delta: Where does it say that?

Alpha: Page 517 of Esoteric Astrology …

Delta: Oh yeah, the first ray, this is the first ray. I got it.

Alpha: But this is in a man and, you see, Vulcan and the Sun are one, Vulcan is the source of spiritual will. Vulcan, men of will and Shamballa are connected with Vulcan. Obviously, Vulcan is in the head.

Epsilon: You know he says here, Vulcan is related to the parathyroid ... and not to the thyroid which is related to the throat centre. As if the parathyroid were not related to the throat centre.

Gamma: You know this is an intermediary centre which occurs during the transfer.

Epsilon: So that wouldn’t do to put Vulcan with the throat centre.

Delta: I have some quotes, for Vulcan, 675 of Esoteric Astrology: "Jehovah was identified with Saturn and Vulcan." (S. D. I. G32.) So it shows the similarity between the two. Also, page 386: “This is in reality a reference to the art of Vulcan who rules the inner man and guides his fashioning.”

Alpha: I left out an important centre, however, I left out a centre that we have been talking about all afternoon: the etheric counterpart to the seven head centres. There should be a planet that rules seven head centres as a totality. … So Vulcan has to be in the head. So, if it is connected with the parathyroids it is secondary. It is a secondary function. … A secondary creative function because it is connected with Taurus ... and with the fact that the throat centre is a form creating centre. But we want to get higher Vulcan here.

Gamma: That is why we give Vulcan a fourth ray.

Alpha: Yeah. ... so where did we read the idea that the seven head centres were an etheric centre as a whole that were not the same as the two many-petalled lotuses? There were a couple places that we read about that.

Delta: That was in Cosmic Fire.

Alpha: Do you remember where? Well, what I am trying to say is we have another possible activity within the head that should take a planet.

Delta: Well I guess what I am hoping for, for the moment, is just to assign the seven major chakras.

Alpha: But, then you are going to miss out planets.

Delta: Yes. But at least we will have an initial base, tentative working system, even though incomplete.

Epsilon: Do you make a difference between the seven head centres within the head and those above the head?

Alpha: Yes. Right here on page 88 of Esoteric Astrology … Which is the same as 169 in Cosmic Fire, and 170. OK, look, seven head centres are analogous to the Great Bear. So you tell me what planet rules the Great Bear as a whole. Is it Uranus or Vulcan? Ah, they are the controlling centres ...

Delta: Page 183 of Cosmic Fire: “The sevenfold head centre in its turn finds ultimate expression in the gorgeous twofold centre above the top of the head and surrounding it.”

Alpha: OK. I think I have the solution. The seven head centres in the head control the chakras, the other chakras in the lower system. They are called the master centres, right? OK. The seven head centres are Great Bear related. … it has to do with spiritual will. Spiritual will dominates the lower centres, so Vulcan has a place within the head, Uranus has a place within the head, Neptune has a place within the head. And I would propose to you that the seven head centres, which are master centres, centres of will, have to either be Vulcan or Uranus, and I wouldn’t mind seeing them related to Vulcan, for the moment, hypothetically.

Delta: Centres (writes on blackboard) Vulcan, or Uranus. And that is very interesting too because the main thrust in terms of suggesting the Sun and Moon veiling planets is either or Vulcan or Uranus, and of course, in any horoscope the Sun and Moon and given pride and place of interpretation . So he is saying that Vulcan or Uranus should be given pride or place of interpretation.

Alpha: It is spiritual will ... you see, How does spiritual will function? From whence does spiritual will function in the head? On page 50 of Esoteric Astrology: “The Great Bear … Aries … Sun veiling Vulcan … Libra” The Great Bear is always the head centres. The Great Bear stands for the seven head centres. And they are the Cosmic Manu. And they are the controlling, dominating first ray centre.

So there is some sort of master organ in the head that is sevenfold, that controls the lower chakras. And I am saying that since it is listed here, page 88 of Esoteric Astrology, as one of the three major centres in the initiate up to the fifth degree, we had better include it.

But the question is, what are they controlling? They are in control, the two big chakras, are they? They are not going to control the many petalled lotuses are they? (Whichever the many petalled lotuses are.) But, what could they control? If they are in the head they could control: alta major, throat, heart, solar plexus, sacral, spleen, base of the spine. You could also say that they should control the ajna centre. The point is, there are seven, it says the Great Bear is the seven centres of OAWNMBS. So take it all the way down on to the lower level. And you have seven head centres being Great Bear correlated and they are master centres. And in the Law of the Supplementary Seven, it’s the same …

Gamma: In those seven, yes the spleen is in the head, because in Esoteric Healing he talks about the spleen being used in healing, the spleen in the head.

Delta: In one of the diagrams it goes into the head too, doesn’t it?

Alpha: Basically what we have here is a version of the seven, the two, plus one. Somehow.

Gamma: But I doubt that the alta major and ajna belong to those seven head centres … Because they have this triangle which seems to be separate, you know.

Alpha: Well can we count seven in some way, if you want to split the solar plexus we can count seven. The point is we can’t make this correlation exactly. But, we know there are seven controlling centres in the head and the seven centres in the head and the seven centres in the head control seven other chakras in the torso.

Gamma: At one place he talks about the four minor centre controlling the four lower centres.

Alpha: Yeah. That is right. Four minor centres in the head, page 88 right? He says, the seven head centres … Wait: “The head, i.e., the four lesser centres and their synthesis, the ajna centre.” Whoa! Well. OK.

Beta: That is why the mental vehicle is so powerful … the Ajna is related to the mental vehicle because it synthesises the four lesser centres ...

Alpha: Right. And it relates the spiritual triad too. And it relates to the whole personality when considering the synthesis of soul and personality. And it even relates to the whole matter aspect, why that is personality. It says on page...

Beta: Well the effect of the work of the Kumaras is psychic. ... even though it is manas ...

Delta: Can I read, in White Magic ... the bottom of 437.

“When, through meditation and service, plus the discipline of the lunar bodies, a man comes consciously and definitely under his soul ray, they he comes as definitely under the influence of one or other of the seven solar systems, as they focus their energy through one or other of the constellations and subsequently one or other of the seven sacred planets. Eventually, there will be twelve sacred planets, corresponding to the twelve constellations, but the time is not yet. Our solar system, as you know, is one of seven. When a man has arrived at this point in evolution, birth months, mundane astrology, and the influences which play upon the form aspect become of less and less importance. This circle of solar systems affects paramountly the soul and it becomes the focal point of spiritual energies. This is the problem of the soul on its own plane, responsiveness to these types of energy, and, of them, the personality is totally unaware. The signs which fall therefore into the four categories of earth, water, fire and air ...”

And that is the traditional way of assigning the chakra rulerships ... and also if you notice, the lower creative hierarchies are assigned that way also.

“… into the four categories of earth, water, fire and air, concern primarily the man who lives below the diaphragm, and who utilises the lower four centres: the centre at the base of the spine, the sacral centre, the solar plexus and the spleen. The inner group of seven major or systemic energies produce their effect upon the man who is living above the diaphragm, and work through the seven representative centres in the head. Four of them focus through the throat centre, the heart centre, the ajna and head centres. Three are held latent in the region of the head centres (the thousand petalled lotus) and only enter into functioning activity after the third initiation.”

“It will be evident therefore how complicated from the standpoint of the horoscope (as well as of the individual problem) is this meeting of the energies of two types of constellations in the case of the man who is neither purely human nor purely spiritual. The ordinary horoscope is negated. The horoscope is not possible as yet of delineation. The only horoscope, which is basically and almost infallibly correct is that of the entirely low grade human being who lives entirely below the diaphragm and is governed by his animal nature alone.

Astrologers must remember also that there are several undiscovered planets which are producing pulls and shifts and focussing streams of energy upon our earth which tend to complicate the problem still further.”

So this is why it is so important for us to try and get this together because this is totally different than the normal horoscope and is a total shift in frame of reference.

Alpha: Well, give us the three, four centres, ajna, throat, heart and solar plexus? What were the four?

Delta: Well it says four of them focus through the throat centre: the heart, ajna, and head centres.

Alpha: You don’t suppose that these seven centres, Are they in the head or above the head?

Epsilon: Four of them ...

Delta: And three are held latent until the third initiation.

Epsilon: They speak of seven major or systemic energies and four of those of major system energies focus through the throat centre, the heart, the ajna and the head centres, and three ‘for monad’, three are held latent in the region of the head centres, the thousand petalled lotus. So, is three types of energies.

Alpha: Three are held latent in the region of the ...

Epsilon: ... head centres ... “the thousand petalled lotus”, and only enter into functioning activity after the third initiation.

Gamma: I think those three are alta major, head and ajna, that is what they say?

Alpha: Yeah, but I am confused here because it says head centres ... It says there are seven head centres? Does it say it there, Delta read the word head centres. Did he not say seven head centres? And did it say they are in the head or above the head or what?

Delta: I think it just says seven head centres.

Delta: It says ... “through the seven representative centres in the head”.

Alpha: ... in the head ...

Epsilon: “The inner group of seven major or systemic energies produce their effect upon the man who is living above the diaphragm, and work through the seven representative centres in the head.” We call them the seven representative centres in the head. ... ‘four of them’ and so on ... ‘of those energies’ .

Alpha: Yeah. And then it says that it controls, of all things, throat, heart, ajna ...

Epsilon: ... and head centres ... He doesn’t say control he says “four of them focus” ...

Alpha: That is enough. Elsewhere it says that they are controlling centres. Look .... let’s take up Initiation Human and Solar right here.

Delta: This, by the way, bears on the triangles listed on page 88 in Esoteric Astrology, and 168 … Can I just lock in one thought since we are so far along these lines with this quote, let’s let Alpha get this … So, in other words it said four of the centres are operating, in the advanced person until the third initiation. And then at that point the other three come in. Now the triangles listed on 169-170, in Cosmic Fire, specifically, and here, Esoteric Astrology, page 88:

4.             “Man partially controlled by the ego, advanced man.
a.             The heart.
b.             The throat.
c.             The head, i.e., the four lesser centres and their synthesis, the ajna centre.”

So, I am just trying to hammer home the identical point.

Beta: Yeah. Let me point that out ... One says the alta ... one says the ajna … 170 says the alta centre.

Gamma: Ohhh, You are right. Thank you. I am sorry. Wow.

Gamma: Wait a minute.

Delta: There is a misquote there. Hey, great, caught DK in another mistake.

Alpha: Oh, not necessarily, they just transposed this to Esoteric Astrology from Cosmic Fire. That is correct. …

Delta: The alta centre is a synthesis centre of the four lowers, Ok? Whereas the ajna … is the synthesis centre also.

Beta: I think the alta is more related to the fourfold and the ajna to the fivefold, in some way.

Alpha: That sounds right. Because karma is said to be, you know Malvin Artley’s article about the release of karma through the alta major centre and its rulership by Saturn, Lord of Karma. He gave a whole kind of anatomical description of how the repository of images is released through the alta major centre at a certain point when karma has to be faced. So I am just correlating that with the number four and with Saturn.

Delta: I agree. I think also the original printing of it was alta.

Delta: So, this repeats what is on page 438 in Treatise on White Magic, then repeats it again on number five, spiritual man to the third initiation: the heart, the throat, the seven head centres now come alive, which is what it said to the third Initiation, all seven are operative.

Alpha: Oh, by the way, Great Bear, Sirius and Pleiades become accessible after the third initiation. There is a trinity available that corresponds with the three head centres. Wow seven solar systems. Oh, you know what? OK. This is all about seven solar systems influencing seven head centres which, three of which head centres become available after the third initiation. And it seems to me that the three great constellations (Great Bear, Sirius and Pleiades) would be the rulers of those head centres. …

Delta: Let me just finish one more thing and I am done. I am trying to lock onto the same point in a particular way. Then number six was spiritual man to the fifth initiation, says the heart, the seven head centres, and then it says the two many petalled lotuses which of course are the ones listed a few pages later on page 183. And it says, this last one, page 178, it says these three which we just mentioned: “....covers the totally of the time remaining in the one hundred years of Brahma, or the remainder of the process of manifestation.”

So having finished with that one point, go on to what you wanted to …

Alpha: OK. Well all I was going to do was more head centres. And I was simple going to say, in rule eight (pages 200-201 in Initiation Human and Solar):

“When the disciple nears the portal, the Greater Seven must awaken and bring forth response from the lesser seven upon the double circle.

“This rule is a very difficult one, and one which holds in it the elements of danger for the man who undertakes too early to tread the final path. Literally it can be interpreted thus: The would-be initiate must develop somewhat the vibration of the seven head centres, and thus sweep into increased vibratory activity the seven centres in the body upon the etheric plane; affecting the seven head centres in the body upon the etheric plane; affecting also, through reciprocal vibration, the seven physical centres which are inevitably stimulated when the etheric centres approach their maximum vibration It is not necessary to enlarge upon this point beyond pointing out that as the seven centres within the head become responsive to the Ego the following seven centres’

1. The head, considered as a unit,

4. The solar plexus,

5. The base of the spine,

7. The organs of generation

are also affected along the line of purification and control.”

So the seven centres controlled by the seven head centres are here listed. … We go to the other one on page 438 ... (Treatise on White Magic).

Alpha: OK. Well, this is very important, because we have just been told what these head centres control and one of the shocking things is that it controls the head considered as a unit. Now what does that mean? That is why I asked whether these centres were above the head ... or in the head.

Delta: Well it lists the organs of generation as a centre, too.

Alpha: Well, the organs of generation is strange enough, it should be the sacral centre unless there is some blind there.

Delta: No, somewhere he says that the heart and the organs of generation have a life unto themselves ...

Gamma: It is the physical aspect. I think he talks about the glands here when he says it has the seven physical centres … you know the seven centres are not physical centres except alta major is a physical centre and I think the pineal is ... he talks about the glands.

Alpha: But not entirely. This is not all glands. Because otherwise it would be thymus and thyroid ... and pancreas ... and gonad ... and so forth.

Epsilon: But Alpha, does he say that the seven head centres synthesize? It seems to me that he says that when they are developed ... it allows a development of the others. He goes in the other direction, it seems to me, in what you read. Doesn’t he?

Beta: There is something in Esoteric Healing that says the same thing. That all the lower centres are synthesised into the head centres. They are transferred, their energy is transferred into the head centres at one point.

Alpha: Well, in a way that is a bit like the seven Heavenly Man being transported to the Great Bear.

Beta: Oh, yeah, but, it is actually some thing more interesting. I’ll look for it, you keep on going on ...

Alpha: OK. But Epsilon, it may be that the seven lesser centres are functioning in their own way, but when the disciple nears the portal the greater seven must awaken and bring forth a certain kind of response from the lesser seven on the double circle. In other words, maybe there is a jewel in each centre and maybe when the centres in the head connect … ah, here’s a very good quote. What about Vulcan being the lord of the mineral kingdom, and what about him controlling the jewel in the lotus and what about the lesser centres having a jewel aspect in them, the first aspect within the lesser centres. And that kind of response is what is awakened in the lower centres?

Epsilon: Ah-haa. The jewel aspect.

Beta: I can read, actually it is Letters on Occult Meditation ... page 74-75. You are right, the five periods:

“ ... in the head centre are seven centres (three major and four minor) and that these centres directly correspond to one or other centre in the body. They are the synthesis, and on the stimulation of their corresponding centre, receive themselves a corresponding acquisition of rotary power.”

So the head centres become rotary, develop the third aspect when there is a connection made with their lower correspondence. Of course, in Esoteric Healing, he says that the healer’s … seven head centres need to be related to their lower correspondences and that way you can transfer energies from the diseased part, the head, heart, or throat ... but the head also has seven centres. And you can, ah, they have the correspondences, it is very important to establish a link there. But he says in Healing that if you concentrate (in a healing session) on sending the energy out through the top of the head it can kill the patient. So, it is important to keep ... or withdraw that energy from the lower chakra or from the heart (if it is in the head, heart, or throat), that you take the energy into the head, and that means that if the problems in the head then you have to take in into one of the seven head centres. But it has to be maintained within the ring pass not ...

Alpha: What is the location? ... does it have anything to do with eyes, ears, mouth?

Beta: One thing I should say ... I think that the reason I put these vertically ... is ... there’s another reason. … Scores of schools of yoga philosophy put chakras stacked up above the head. The Buddhist system does the same, stacks enormous number of chakras above the head and including Deities, all of which have chakras as well. But, that is another reason I think the seven head centres can be considered as being vertically arranged. And in that way they would be arranged with auric envelopes related to principles, or sheathes. … Seven sheathes or seven principles. That is why I put those arcs up.

Alpha: That is quite an astounding thought. And it complexifies. Holy Moses! Does that make a set of fourteen fold constitution of man? I mean you know how that fourteen is always showing up, and if you are stacking the seven above the head, you have seven below ...

Epsilon: ... you make an analogy between principle and sheathes. You said seven principles are fused.

Beta: Yeah. Because well, the Buddhic body, eventually has to focus through a Buddhic vehicle. For us it is the causal body, and that is why there is such tremendous emphasis on the fourth chakra up, the twelve petalled lotus in the head of the seven head centres.

Alpha: OK. This has to be drawn.

Beta: It may be distinct from the twelve petalled lotus in the head, and discussed just by itself.

Alpha: So basically, what we have done here is we have learned of the importance of seven head centres. We have seen the proposition in how DK often talks about the seven centres in the head, and Beta is proposing that they could be stacked up, above the head.

Epsilon: But it could be the other one because there are seven within the head, and are there seven above the head?

Beta: It could be, so, twenty-one.

Epsilon: So we are maybe speaking of two sets of seven? Where do you get the three?

Beta: ... the normal centres; so you have twenty-one there.

Alpha: Beta, would you do us a favor and will you copy this so we can make a Xerox of this.

Beta: Already did that, and you can enlarge this; it’s a good drawing.

Gamma: You know I have drawn this thing here and you have here the soul, and you have the eye of the soul. OK. ... but, where would be the other seven within the head.

Beta: Well they would have to be somewhere in the ... triangle, maybe, it could be a quaternary associated with that. The quaternary could be associated with the alta. I don’t know. The Brahmarandra is discussed as being separate from the single head centre, in some place … probably Treatise on White Magic.

Alpha: One of the things that is quite extraordinary about this is that control by the seven centres, one of the controls, is of the head centre as a unit. Then what you read is it controls heart, ajna, throat and head centres. So it has always seemed difficult to me to understand how something within the head could control something that is superior to it. In other words, how a part can control the whole?

Delta: I am not sure I follow what you are saying.

Alpha: Well you have the seven centres within the head (and they are etheric), so how is it they manage, if they are within the head, to control the ajna and the crown centre too? Beta’s explanation of seven chakras above the head give them a superior point of view, as it were, and the possibility of sort of reaching down into the lower systems and controlling them.

Gamma: Especially the ones which you have drawn above the soul here, they seem to be in Manas-Buddhi-Atma.

Alpha: They seem to be correspondences to the three esoteric kumaras. … You know we always have a Sun, in the middle, and then three lesser ones and three latent. Right now there are only four manifest most every place, and three latent. … the names are in Secret Doctrine (Sanat, Sanatana ...)

Gamma: The soul, the egoic lotus in your diagram, is that one of the seven above the head.

Alpha: No, that is not the egoic lotus, that is a correspondence.

Beta: It’d be probably a correspondence, but if we had these sets of seven centres, then we would have the mental, the astral and the physical chakras all together, ah, in a sense.

Alpha: Aren’t these all etheric?

Beta: Yeah. These could be in the ethers of the other two planes.

Alpha: What do you mean, ethers of other two planes?

BetaThe four etheric planes of the mental. The four etheric planes of the astral. … That ties in with the fourth subplane and being fully completed and the fifth subplane being worked on. That ...

Alpha: But ... the astral plane is indivisible. You know it says that the mental plane and the physical plane are subdivided ... into what corresponds to ethers, but the astral plane is a unit.

Beta: OK. That is quite interesting ...

Alpha: The astral body has centres but they are in astral matter.

Beta: Is he trying to distract people’s attention from the astral plane?

Alpha: Well, no. He says that …

Beta: ... it doesn’t exist after the second initiation.

Alpha: I know but he basically says that it is the big one and it is so powerful because it is totally united, that the other two planes are divided (physical and mental), but the astral plane is so united that it forms the most resistant and powerful unit.

Beta: That is why it shouldn’t be focused on, through the heart and solar plexus.

Epsilon: But on page 117, when you have the drawing of the constitution of man, there is divided in seven like the other ones.

Alpha: Yes, divided in seven, but not in four and three; the physical plane and the mental plane are divided in four and three respectively. They are called divided planes.

Gamma: One is three and four and the other is four and three ...

Epsilon: Would it be true for ... buddhic and monadic?

Beta: Well the buddhic has three or four higher subplanes because he discusses that, I know. And atma certainly does, and the monadic plane. They are all divided planes too.

Alpha: Atma does. I would like to see the reference on the Buddhic plane.

Beta: I just was reading that.

Alpha: Manas is divided. Monadic plane is divided. … apparently, because the three higher subplanes have third, first and second ray monads respectively. As a matter of fact, the third ray monads have a task of moving up onto the second subplane of the monadic plane by the end of the solar system. That is their task.

Gamma: Um-hmm. Burden us even more.

Alpha: Because they are the failures of the previous solar system. … It probably wasn’t their fault. By the way, Beta, the second semicircle, did you really need to draw that or did you try to ‘X. it out?

Beta: No, no ... that is the thousand petalled lotus ... just enclosing all the rest. Those visible jagged edges are supposed to be petals.

Alpha: Oh. I’m sorry. I just didn’t know what you had up there ...

Gamma: … I would just like to [look at] the way these seven centres are stacked up above ... Why have you written on the top there?

Beta: Oh, I meant that it could include all seven centres.

Alpha: These are all etheric centres, aren’t they?

Beta: Right. And there are certain correspondences thoughout.

Gamma: Ah. Say it again. They are corresponding to the soul, you said?

Beta: Yeah. To a certain extent.

Alpha: I have a question related to the stacking. What happens if a stack, or tier, is related to ten groups of ninety-six. Is that correct? In other words, isn’t there a place where it says that basically what you are dealing with in the head centre is ten groups of ninety-six (960 petals) … Could it be that you have them stacked in that way? Could it be that the thousand petalled lotus is stacked?

Beta: That is interesting. How would we divide it? Or calculate it?

Alpha: Well, there is ten times ninety-six and we worked out ninety-six in several ways, twelve times Nine, is, no, one hundred and eight, but two times forty-eight is part of the ajna constitution. And eight times twelve is another one. He gave us that. You have eight times twelve at one point on page 860, but where is that thing about the stacks, where is that about how to derive the 960? There is a definite place where it tells you how to take ten times ninety-six. … We are talking about the actual structure of the head centre. …

Beta: I meant to say that all those seven chakras correspond to the soul, if you put the monad on top and if you put the personality at the very bottom.

Alpha: It is correspondences but the chakras themselves are just etheric. See what is happening is ...

Beta: Nevertheless, even if it doesn’t represent those, the physical, astral and mental planes, it certainly represents the fifth. Then (this makes a great deal of sense), then if the astral body is a unit, then seven centres in the head itself would be as a unit. You have the seven centres below, then the mental centres … would be dividable.

Alpha: That makes sense.

Beta: That makes an immense amount of sense because of the lower five and the mental. (I wish I had done a compilation [on the numbers].)

Alpha: 356 triplicities, there is a place where we talk about the number of groups in the head centre.

Gamma: I am wondering if those seven centres might not be linked to those seven tiers?

Beta: In terms of a bridge or in terms of emanation from seven tiers, relating to the human causal body? But, constructing the causal body there would have to be, five on a planetary, seven on a solar, and nine on a solar or higher ...

Gamma: Somehow it resists being totally latent.

Beta: Yeah, there might be two latent ones there, because the nine. He talks in several places about the ninefold vibration coming down to construct the causal body, before the causal body is built and active. And then the nine, the causal body of course unfolds, nine fold. Until it reaches the three central buds, bud petals. So I can see in terms of the mind but ...

Gamma: ... he never said seven?

Beta: ... well actually, the explanation is there. Instead of seven ...

Alpha: In connection with the etheric centres ... page 859, Cosmic Fire: “In connection with the etheric centres, we should note the fact that the major head centre is twofold in structure, and consists of a lotus of ninety-six petals between the eyebrows, and of a twelve-petalled lotus at the top of the head, with ninety-six petals in a subsidiary whorl.”

OK. This is very interesting, this is your 108, Beta; this is very important:

“The significance of these figures is profound. In every case the figure twelve is met with, showing a definite relation to the basic psychic lotuses on egoic levels. Twelve multiplied by eight stands for the twelve petals in each case, while in the figure eight lies hidden the idea of duality:”

Uh, now what is really interesting, he only says 96 petals, Where are we getting 960? Why does he only say 96 petals?

Beta: This is great; there is something here. Yes he is saying something. Where is the ten?

Alpha: Where is the ten? I put 96 times 10, but I didn’t have the ten. But, I am glad to find 108.

Delta: Well maybe it is like the Sephiroth, they just give the first Sephiroth, and the rest extends from there.

Alpha: Ah. OK, wait a second. On page 168 he says: 960 secondary petals arranged around the central twelve. Now, here on page 859, he says: “a twelve-petalled lotus at the top of the head, with ninety-six petals in a subsidiary whorl.” Are we going to get 960 somehow. If so ... how? Are you saying that this is simply a preliminary 96, that you multiply it by ten because there are an equivalent of ten Sephiroths? In other words, it has only given you 1 x 96, but really you have to replicate that in a subsidiary nine?

Beta: What is 9 x 96 = 864.

Alpha: Right 864. This is very interesting.

Delta: Well, if the chakras are concerned with consciousness (more so than form in some respects) then consciousness is controlled by the number nine, threes and nines.

Alpha: Yeah. We almost wonder whether, for the nine initiations, they are kind of like nine groupings here.

Beta: Here. Let me read from 857-858. The very bottom of 857:

“The etheric centres are the force vortices formed in etheric matter by astral impulse, transmitted via the astral centres. These astral centres in their turn are the transmitters of still higher energy, and thus the statement is technically true that the etheric centres are the source of man's psychic energy, and are therefore affected by the unfoldment of the petals. Every petal is in its turn a type of force centre, and the energy emanating from it affects the etheric centres, and produces every type of psychic energy of the true kind.”

Alpha: “Every petal is in its turn a type of force centre, and the energy emanating from it affects the etheric ...” Then how is the petal in etheric centres? Or maybe etheric centres as a whole? The petal is part of an etheric centre. Well maybe it means the etheric centres as a whole.

Beta: Well, the causal body is not usually considered as an etheric centre … it doesn’t qualify, which is odd, in a sense. Interesting. …

[ensuing controvery over petals and astral and etheric centres, resolved in the following:]

Alpha: Yeah but it was not only the petals, its every etheric centre affected by every astral centre, which is affected by every mental centre. See, it is not just the petals alone; it is not just like the petals above are affecting the whole etheric centre below.

What I think it is, is that a centre is a door, and according to the number of petals activated, or whatever, the whole door is affected, the power of the whole door. For instance, if you have an etheric centre of a certain awakeness, it will allow you into so much of a new domain. If it has a greater awakeness then it will allow you into still more and maybe … they are not all equally activated if each one represented some force centre. For instance, the heart chakra, Robert Gerrard is always making a big thing of the fact that on page 660 of DINA II, are the twelve potencies of the heart, really only eleven are listed, but he says there are twelve. … And what that means is that not everybody has humility and patience and all the rest of them in equal degree, right? So what that probably means is the different petals of that particular centre when awakened affect the whole possible entry into the heart realm. And when all the petals are awakened you get a full entry into the heart realm. There is the general area of experience connected with the heart. The more petals that are active, the more the experience of the heart. Anyway ...

Epsilon: So ... that would go with that sentence: “Every petal is in its turn a type of force centre.”

Alpha: Yeah. And the energy emanating from it affects the etheric centres. Not only its own etheric centre but every other etheric centre too, right? “And produces every type of psychic energy of a true kind.”

So basically here is another whole area of inquiry, just the way he gave us the twelve qualities of the heart, we also know the fifteen energies of the throat, and the six energies of the sacral centres and so forth. …

Beta: Another thing, if you are thinking of the five higher centres of the head, there is a mention on page 336 that manas is the psychic effect of the work of the kumaras. … which may tie into the soul....