Fellowship of Cosmic Fire

Delta: … another thing I wanted to throw out for review is, the possibility the three finally awakened head centres is Great Bear, Sirius, Pleiades ... What about on page 301 in Esoteric Astrology, those three head centres being ruled by the central spiritual sun, Sirius, and the sun … just for consideration. … it says that at an advanced or high state of initiation, it gives that.

Alpha: OK. Are there seven centres or the three head centres?

Delta: Well it just lists three things; I might be bringing in an extraneous thing.

Alpha: OK. I get the reason, Yes, here is the connection. Draco is to our sun as our sun is to our Earth. In other words, there is some base of the spine connection with our ... as a matter of fact, our sun ...

Delta: That is why I think the Earth might be the base of the spine chakra.

Alpha: I think there is a real good reason for thinking so. We just have to figure out what to do with Pluto and so forth.

Delta: Well, Pluto is connected because he draws that picture of Earth somewhere in Esoteric Astrology … of what the Earth would look like in its full constitution. He has Earth like a several pointed star. And he has Earth, Pluto, Vulcan, Aries, star of the Great Bear.

Gamma: And this is a double triangle.

Alpha: Yeah. The five fold thing.

Beta: ... we are not going to be able to handle this but it should be noted, I think. Esoteric Astrology, 859, on the bottom, the whole question of 12 multiplied by 8 for the 96 petals. At the bottom of page 467, after the enumeration of the four sets of two constellations.

“In these eight constellations are to be found the influences which are mainly concerned with the evolution of the soul—in the solar system, in the planet Earth and in man. They are the “eight potencies of the Christ”; they govern the psychic unfoldment of the life in all forms.”

If we tie that together with some of the things found between 857 and 861 (or so) there may be some set of correspondences.

Alpha: Yeah, well that’s most interesting, One day soon we should get into this question of the seven solar systems, which is a very blinded area.

Delta: Let me repeat some things we agree upon. We agree that the ether, in terms of the chakra system and the seven head centres, have inadvertently or for whatever reason, been omitted often times.

We secondly addressed that the final three only awakened in a much later stage. And we have proposed rulerships to these final three, Sirius, Great Bear, Pleiades, also Central Spiritual Sun, Sirius, and Sun. And we didn’t propose rulerships for the other four. We did propose that Vulcan would probably rule the jewel of the lotus in most of the chakras and parts, probably, in the head chakra.

And then we speculated and felt pretty comfortable that Vulcan and/or Uranus were connected with the seven head centres in some important way. And we speculated that Neptune might rule the upper twelve and Uranus the 960. We didn’t come to any ideas about the ajna, alta major, or throat although we could see Saturn’s correspondence (very easily) with the alta major or throat. And then we suggested Jupiter for heart, Venus for the solar plexus, Mars for the sacral and Pluto for the base of the spine and Earth for the spleen.

Alpha: OK, with Vulcan we have to include the seven head centres there. We have to write on the list of chakras the seven head centres. By the way, I thank you for reviewing the whole idea of the jewel in the middle of the head centre. That is really important.

Epsilon: It is very important, and awakens by resonance the jewel in the chakras in the body.

Alpha: That is pretty important and it is so Vulcanian in a certain respect.

Gamma: Under this he says how the centres are finally burned by this resonance with the head centre in all the chakras.

Alpha: Yes. Oh, that is really interesting. That number four there again, fourth initiation and Vulcan. Vulcan is the ruler of number four. And Vulcan’s association with spiritual will, and spiritual will’s association with the jewel in the lotus. That really fits. Oh my God, Vulcan and Neptune in opposition … Really interesting that they have that kind of construction, right there. So basically because DK has said elsewhere that there is a jewel in each one of the etheric chakras, you have to find a ruler for it.

Now, with Vulcan as the ruler of the seven head centres (or at least a keen thought about that) we are left with the ajna, alta major, and throat. Now somebody said there is esoteric Saturn and exoteric Saturn. And there is legitimate reason for putting Saturn in relation to the throat and in relation to the alta major as well. There is a correspondence of the antahkarana between the throat centre and the alta major centre: when the antahkarana is built there is a link between the centre at the top of the spine and the centre at the bottom of the spine. So it would be interesting to see Saturn as the ruler of both of those. … In that case we would be simply left with Mercury in relation to the ajna centre. … It will be better than nothing.

Delta: Well I want to fit anything else in. … I am just doing the head part there. … Vulcan and Uranus.

(Voices expressing concern about squeaky blackboard … :-)

Alpha: Oh, that is really quite amazing what has emerged here about the head centres. Quite wonderful. Really wonderful. Now, you know, there are always three groups of seven. But the interesting thing about the Law of the Supplementary Seven (in Rays and Initiations) is that it pretty well deals with two sets of chakras. But, why shouldn’t there be three? You know seven centres in the head, seven centres above the head. However, we haven’t solved the problem of 96 petals in the head or 960 petals in the head.

Alpha: Yeah. So where does the factor of ten come in ... oh, oh wait a second. OK. The fact that there are ten schemes and ten chains, does this have anything to do with it? Ah, solar system of ten, greater solar system of ten, the greater solar system of ten has to be found in man as well.

Beta: ... that would make me very happy, actually.

Alpha: A zodiac of twelve is found here. Right? There should also be a zodiac of ten found somewhere too. Maybe the zodiac of ten and the zodiac of twelve are somehow found together in the head. And maybe that ten-ness, maybe there is a tetraktys, a ten-ness, like a Sephiroth ten-ness associated with these 96 petals.

Delta: The bottom of 859, we have the twelve petals plus 96 petals making 108, and if we add the seven chakras to that, the lower seven chakras, that makes it a total of 115. I don’t know if this is going out on a limb, maybe those are the 115 bodies of the solar system.

Alpha: Well, OK, that is really interesting, 115 plus. But never-the-less, 115 ...

Epsilon: But you add petals to whole chakras, it is kind of not same unit. You have 96 petals but you add seven chakras …

Delta: Yeah. It might not be all appropriate for me to do that. … if we consider that those 108 petals are controlling the totality of the seven chakras, those are the major controls.

Alpha: OK. But you are left out the seven head centres.

Delta: That is true.

Alpha: Good. Yes. … we have to play with numbers.

Delta: OK. I’m not advocating that just bouncing it about. So, go ahead …

Alpha: But it would be interesting to add all the petals. And by the way, in terms of head centres, seven head centres, do they have petals? Or are they unitary items?

Beta: They certainly have an atomic nature. …

Gamma: If they are centres they must have this. And we can wonder if they have the same number of petals they represent. I mean, the seven head petals represent the ...

Epsilon: ... seven head centres ... the same number of petals as their corresponding chakra, yeah.

Gamma: ... So there would be forty-eight.

Epsilon: ... yeah ... four tiers, because there are 48 in the body.

Alpha: Oh ... another 48. Good god! … now we have three 96’s. … That is really interesting, 48 petals in head centre, well, maybe if ...

Beta: 288 equals 2 x 144. It sounds like a reflection to me.

Alpha: What’s this ... the number of the saved. How do we get the number of the saved by adding ...

Beta: Oh my gosh! Where do you divide. See you have the 48 and then another six in the head ... and then you have the 96 in the brow and the 48 below.

Alpha: Wait ... Where is your top 48?

Beta: In the seven head centres that reflect the ....

Alpha: Forty-eight and forty-eight in the seven head centres, and then … if they have petals and if they correspond ... And then below that is? …

Beta: The twelve petalled lotus could be considered the heart centre in the head, and the seven head centres correspond to the physical centres. Then the heart centre in the head could be that twelve petalled lotus. It would be included in the 48.

Alpha: Oh. Well, you are going to have to go about five times slower for me right now. Well, you counting the ones above the head?

Beta: Yeah. its just the ones above the head.

Alpha: Because I wasn’t counting the ones up above the head. I was counting the ones in the head that would have maybe ...

Beta: That is true too.

Alpha: We left out the ones in the head. … Well the question is what are the control centres? Are the ones in the head the control centres or the ones above the head, the control centres? We don’t even know if there are ones above the head.

Beta: It is probably a matter of status, stage ... I don’t know.

Alpha: Shall I write down here ... ‘brain dead’.

Beta: Just let it ... (inaudible) ...

Alpha: But I want to get to something here; can we find the greater zodiac in the head?

Delta: I think it makes sense because why wouldn’t both zodiacs be represented in us if it is represented macrocosmically, then why not microcosmically?

Alpha: The only problem with greater and lesser zodiacs are the following: the lesser zodiac is twelve and the greater zodiac is ten. OK.

Delta: Yeah. But that is in the future.

Alpha: ... talking about right now.

Gamma: He talks about the greater zodiac. And this Sirius reference he compares the normal zodiac with the greater zodiac, as one, something about Pisces being the decanate ...

Alpha: Yeah. Pisces, Taurus and Scorpio are a decanate in a greater Zodiac. … But it is not the greater zodiac of Draco, Orion, Great Bear, Pleiades, Little Bear, etc. ... which is maybe not manifesting at all through normal constellations, but are the analogue to the Sephiroth: Kether, Chockmah and Binah. (Seven great constellations in the greater zodiac with three unmanifested.)

Delta: So now we are on a new topic which is the greater zodiac, that we assume has ten constellations.

Alpha: The greater zodiac does have ten constellations, but we don’t know what the greater zodiac is. It is not really a new topic. It is like trying to find the greater zodiac in the head centre. And we are lead to a suspicious situation where we are told on page 859 that “there are ninety-six petals in a subsidiary whorl.”

Holy Moses! Oh yeah. OK. I think I just got it, fifteen minutes later. There are 96 petals at the top of the head, 96 in the subsidiary whorl which is the same as 8 x 12, right? So, it is a thousand petalled lotus, right? There is some factor of ten going on. The minute you have a factor of ten you begin to suspect the correspondence to the greater zodiac.

By the way I want to ask something else (this is funny). If it is a greater zodiac, should it be above the head since the lesser zodiac is on top of the head? I mean I just ‘asked’. In other words, this is really stupid, all right? You have seven head centres supposedly above the head, what if there are ten? I am looking for a greater zodiac, that’s all.

Gamma: I see how many ...

Epsilon: Where do you have twelve?

Alpha: I am looking at the number of Shamballa, seven plus seven plus seven plus three. I am looking for seven centres in the body, seven centres in the head, seven centres above the head, plus three, the number of Shamballa. Total control.

Beta: It is true, you have to have those three to co-ordinate the three sets of seven?

Alpha: Yeah. So I am wondering if that corresponds to the greater zodiac. Now the only thing I think I know about the greater zodiac is that it is the centres in the OAWNMBS.

Epsilon: I am confused ... you were looking for ten, and now you speak of 24.

Alpha: OK. I am saying ... if you take your ten above the head as the control of the twelve that are right here on top of the head, your ten above the head when added to the seven in the head and the seven in the body are going to yield 24. Ten plus seven plus seven is 24. Anyway that is twenty-four centres all together.

Gamma: Twenty-four would (also) be seven, seven, seven & three which govern that.

Alpha: That is correct. It is also equal to ten plus twelve. Ten plus twelve is twenty-two which is the master number. And twenty-four is the Shamballic number.

Gamma: Do we have a three governing those sets of seven above the head?

Alpha: Yeah. [VSK: inserted out of later context to here, in context … The nine, seven and five is in this solar system too, is with the AUM, isn’t it? The Brahma aspect is five. The Vishnu is seven. And the Shiva aspect is nine. And so it corresponds with the three solar systems as well . But it is now also nine, seven, and five. By the way seven plus five is twelve, plus nine ... 21. Add it all up. Twenty-two again.

Beta: Well, I could suggest the nine, seven and five can be found in the causal constitution.] …

Gamma: Here, if you look at the antahkarana, there is one part of the antahkarana which when you go through two thirds of the antahkarana, it goes to the soul.

Alpha: Everything is threefold, and you always have three sets of seven; we have been running into three sets of seven all day. Even in our discussion in consciousness, we ran into three sets of seven, in terms of seven sons of Fohat, seven rays, and seven spirits of darkness, you run into three sets of sevens again and every three set of sevens is either going to resolve through the addition of ... Ahh, I got it! A 22 is 24.

Delta: Because the one is three.

Alpha: Exactly. Twenty-two equals twenty-four. In other words, you always have seven, plus seven, plus seven, plus one to give you the master number twenty-two. However, if you have seven, plus seven, plus seven plus one (equal 22), the ONE is equal to three, so you get 24, because you have a trinity factor here. Every ONE is a THREE ... three-in-one. So you have two powerful numbers. Twenty-two is a master number, and twenty-four is a power number. And we are constantly given these three sets of seven, plus one. Or, three sets of seven plus three. …

[deleted side-tracking question about (number) 5, unclear.]

Alpha: Oh. Basically I am not going to be explicit. I am just going to say that all of these centres are etheric. Aren’t they? … [deleting several interruptions and pauses]. Seven centres in the body, etheric. Seven centres in the head, etheric. Seven centres above the head, etheric. Otherwise you have left out the seven centres on the astral plane, you have left out a whole bunch of things.

Beta: So it that means basically you have the threefold etheric structure here, which is fantastic. You have 21, or 21 plus three.

Alpha: Yeah if we really need somehow to put the three. We began looking for the three to ask the logical question, as above so below, man is the reflection of all, so is the greater zodiac found in man? That the greater zodiac is greater than the lesser zodiac and the lesser zodiac is twelvefold and it’s found in the head then the greater zodiac is certainly not going to be found any lower. …

Delta: Would there be any interest in going on to discuss these various triangles mentioned on 169, correlating that with the chakras.

Alpha: Well the question at this point, would we benefit most from doing that now (assuming that Delta’s assumption is that because Mercury is stationary) we would be hot if we did that?

Delta: No we would be hot if we did anything.

Alpha: OK. Or, the question is are we so hot that we are burnt out? So I am going to remove myself from this consideration for a minute and see what other people think?

Epsilon: I would prefer to stop myself. We would be fresher tomorrow.

Beta: I am beginning to feel like I am tired, but I don’t know; I could go on for a while ...

Delta: I feel this topic has been largely explored as much as it can in a productive way at the moment. We can always come back to it.

Alpha: Can we at least summarise. You started this earlier, but afterward a few other things were apparently learned.

Gamma: I think we should at the same time summarise and anticipate what we are going to do tomorrow.

Alpha: If we summarise and anticipate would that be considered some productive work?

Delta: Well I don’t care what we do; I just don’t want to spend any more time on this topic.

Alpha: No, I may agree with you. I would feel quite fine about this if we could just extract ...

Beta: Well can I close it? Actually this is slightly extraneous but ties in with the previous concern just before this, a little quote bottom of page 853, Cosmic Fire. She draws from C. W. Leadbeater, but this is her comment:

“C. W. Leadbeater had a dim apprehension of this idea [the question of the early teachers and divine kings who occupied the ill-favoured bodies of the early humanity] when he referred to those boat loads of Egos from the moon chain. He has of course materialised the idea far too much; if the same fundamental idea is expressed in terms of force and of the appearance of force centres within the earth chain, which force centres are the result of energy emanating from an earlier chain and producing whorls in the ether or substance of the mental plane, then the true significance may be more easily grasped.”

Alpha: Well, how does this relate?

Beta: Well, this relates the chains, to force centres, to mental energy. A direct set of correspondences of chakras and chains, schemes, chains and ...

Delta: Can I try and summarise what I understood of this extensive conversation. … That it makes sense that since there are three sets of seven in most things (we discussed the chakras as having three sets of sevens: astral, etheric and I don’t know exactly how you would want to label the third), which makes 21 chakras ultimately that we have to deal with. Three sets of seven, and we said there would be a controlling chakra for each one which would make a total of [22, or if that one controller is a trinity, we have 24]. [end of tape]

Alpha: OK. This is side two of tape number ten and we are just summarising what we have done so far, and one of the concrete things we have done is pretty well assign a planet to each type of chakra found within the solar system ... by saying that Saturn is a double and could stand for either the throat centre or the alta major centre ... that Vulcan has a whole lot to do with the seven head centres, and that Mercury is ajna (I suggested, as a hypothesis.)

So basically we have looked closely at the solar system and while not completely happy with what we have, we have some reasonable thoughts about which planets represents what positions. And then we veered off a bit into the difficulties of assigning planets to different chakras, the fact that a number of the different chakra systems were esoteric arose. And that is why we examined the head so closely.

We examined the head closely because the seven centres within the head, which are normally not considered as chakras, had to be considered as a unit. And then looking further we began to speculate about chakras above the head. We didn’t assign any planets to chakras above the head, at the same time we have left out Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva as the three controlling entities ... which we discussed this morning.

So, not only do we have to find chakras assignments for all the planets, which we have done pretty well, but we maybe have to find some way of incorporating Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva which we thought was important this morning because it was always the triangle surrounding the point in all the different systems (whether it is human or planetary or so on whatever).

So we pretty well exhausted the idea of the planetary system and the complexities which possibly are found in the head centre, which has been an eye opener for me, considering the complexity of the head centre.

Now, since we have done the macrocosmic system, the thing that lies ahead of us is to begin trying to learn something about the triangles within the physical-etheric system. We have to ...

Delta: … and how that corresponds to the egoic lotus, and initiations.

Beta: Yeah. This is astonishing. And ...

Alpha: Well let’s make sure that we are projecting properly. How the unfoldment of the chakras and the unfoldment of all of these sets of chakras corresponds with the unfoldment of the egoic lotus and corresponds with the initiatory status of the individual. … It is both a cosmological but psychologically interesting subject.

Delta: That is the core of exoteric astrology. [exo?]

Alpha: Yeah. But this is also Cosmic Fire, we have to remember that in this group we can distinguish between what the international academy of esoteric astrology is to do, as a whole, and what we as a kind of core group on Cosmic Fire can do. … I have no objection to projecting ahead to this particular topic because I think it is psychologically interesting and it has cosmological implication. So, although it is a topic I have examined, I think that the group being what it is that a whole lot more light will emerge if we decide to examine it. … But I think we have to figure out how we are different from the astrology group at large.

Alpha: OK. So now we are talking about what it is worth while doing. And of course the whole question of man, his chakra system, his egoic lotus, and the initiations is an important psychological subject which relates also to the psychology of the planets and their initiatory system. So it goes cosmological and makes me happy.

Another thing we need to do, we haven’t made a whole lot of progress, and I don’t know if we will this time, is drawing the map of the nesting of the different entities. Who fits into what and all the rest of it. So that is a legitimate subject that is so big that I just don’t know how we will do this.

Delta: I would like to do the Kumaras, and their associations with the Buddhas of activity and controlling certain globes and certain basic triangles.

Gamma: But I think that before doing that we have to have our model, which is either the Earth, man, or the Solar Logos, to have it, really pinned down, really as clear as possible. … if this single field is clarified … we will understand exactly the functions of this one.

Alpha: So to that this morning we did Solar Logos and Planetary Logoi in some small measure, not extensively, but we really went into the constitution somewhat and went into the rounds and how they develop and all the rest of it. Now it seems that what is up on the table is to try to do man a bit. We also did a bit of man but all through both days we have done man in a way because we actually did go through the egoic lotus and talk about unfoldment.

The only thing we didn’t do is correlate the chakra triangles with it. See this is something that we cover all the time in the Esoteric Psychology course and in the PhDE course to a certain extent. But, given who is here a whole lot more light would come out.

So maybe what we are saying is we do man in the morning, see how it goes, and then having nailed down man in the morning, having nailed down the Solar Logos and the Planetary Logoi (to a certain extent) this morning, maybe we are in a position to start putting in some of these other entities.

Delta: Well, it mentions specifically about the Buddhas of Activity being connected with man and the unfoldment (in Rays and Initiations).

Alpha: Yeah. [… let’s move forward as it seems that we promised ourselves that we were going to examine the human chakra systems] in the morning. … It is one of our frames, like Gamma said, the planetary chakra system, our solar system is one frame, and we have been paying a lot of attention to that, now the human chakra system, we haven’t paid a whole lot of attention to that but we have hinted and discussed.

Now suppose we have these two frames in place, then we proceed to put in some of the other entities and see how they fit, not hoping to cover all of them, but just the ones we can be selective about. Is that reasonable?

Gamma: I just want to express my wish to clarify as much as possible either man or Solar Logos. And as for the other ones, understanding the principle of how we really pin down the nesting. Ah, One entity, and then after that the rest will be a piece of cake.

Alpha: OK. I can see the point, as for ‘the piece of cake-ness’, I think it will be ‘easier’, but …

Delta: Well we will make good progress on the macrocosmic level and ... I would also like to discuss the Creative Hierarchies.

Alpha: Well, I agree we should not leave without discussing the Creative Hierarchies, because there is tremendous obscurity about this and it will also tie in with the rays because rays are different kinds of positions with respect to the hierarchies. …

Epsilon: If we want to be sensible we will not have time for man or Solar Logos in more in depth, then relate to that, then Creative Hierarchies.

Alpha: We don’t need Solar Logos right now more in depth. So we have done enough with the Solar Logos right now.

Epsilon: I would prefer to begin with the Hierarchies.

Delta: Lets begin with the Creative Hierarchies tomorrow morning and do that thoroughly.

Alpha: OK, but the problem is, I want to do the Creative Hierarchies but we are still within the chakra thought form.

Gamma: Yeah. We haven’t solved that.

Alpha: You see what I am saying, let’s try to keep it within the range of principles, not personal. Let’s try to discuss the chakras in such a way that a bridge to larger systems remains open so that the implications are right there to our attention. And then the afternoon and the evening is a long time. So I am sure that we can find the time, even an hour on the Creative Hierarchies is something.

Gamma: You know. If we don’t deal with the Hierarchies ... the crocodiles are going to come back with a vengeance.