Alpha: All right we are on page 331, and we are talking about a Solar Logos, a Heavenly Man and a man which again perhaps, loosely, the term Heavenly Man as being used for Planetary Logos. This is where, you remember earlier, I said that the Solar Logos extends no lower physically than the buddhic plane. And that is why, interestingly enough, there is a closer correspondence between a Solar Logos and a man than there is between a man and a Planetary Logos.
I mean, when ever you are looking for parallels it seems that the Solar Logos and the man are closer together ... and this is so interesting because for a Solar Logos, you see vibration, light, colour, and sound – that is a normal sequence in which sound paradoxically is put third rather than first or second. But what is really interesting is that it is easy enough to see how the logoic plane is vibratory, monadic is light, and sound is atmic fine, and colour is buddhic, of course the blending of all qualities. But in comes this very strange Heavenly Man – where vibration is monadic, and light is atmic, and sound is buddhic, and colour is mental. …
Beta: This would make sense to me if the Heavenly Man is the ego; the electrical vibration is his source as a ray lord on the second plane. … If we say the Heavenly Man is on the buddhic plane as the ego of the planetary entity, the planetary logos, the ego as one of the periodical vehicles, then on the plane monadic the planetary logos is called a ray lord . This is where a heavenly man is focussed, on the buddhic plane, and would start coming in as a ray lord.
Alpha: OK. You are saying that the Heavenly Man is a ray lord? … But let’s not forget that the causal body which is the ego of the Planetary Logos is focused on the cosmic mental plane. And so when you say the ego of the Heavenly Man is focussed on the buddhic plane that is so much lower as to be almost too low, isn’t it?
Beta: Did you say cosmic mental?
Alpha: I said that the egoic lotus of the Planetary Logos is focused on the cosmic mental plane. And now did you just say that there is an ego on our buddhic plane?
Gamma: Well it is not the same Heavenly Man.
Alpha: Yeah. If what Beta says is correct.
Beta: Well, I only think of the planetary names in terms of their usage in our seven solar planes. Because, obviously, the causal body of the Planetary Logos is on the cosmic mental. The Planetary Logos seems to incarnate through three mental vibrations, two astral and then seven physical.
Alpha: The Planetary Logos seems to ... ?
Beta: That is still from a sort of human perspective.
Alpha: Well, OK, the point is, I think that the use of the word Heavenly Man is again loose. I think that we have been considering three kinds of atoms: a solar atom, a planetary atom, and a man atom. And I think that this is one of those tabulations where he is not being technical about the term Heavenly Man.
Beta: I find that what is still equally difficult is that from Heavenly Man to man you go from the monadic plane to the buddhic plane. Atmic plane is not mentioned in there.
Alpha: Yes. And I want to know what entity, what missing entity, has its electrical vibration on the atmic plane, because there has got to be one.
Delta: Solar life. Aren’t solar lives in between?
Alpha: OK. You mean like a regent of a chain?
Delta: Well, that tabulation, page 844, it shows the goal for each thing after we finish, you know the human mode of evolution and we become a solar Pitris, after that we become planetary logoi, so those solar Pitris are in between planetary logoi and humans.
Beta: The humans are become solar Pitris because they have to be breathed out by Sirius again.
Delta: This would be after we finish our ninth initiation. This all becomes solar Pitris.
Beta: This is standard.
Alpha: Generally, Yes. You know what is interesting about that. The ninth initiate, he has not yet begun the planetary logos sequence of initiation, correct? Can we safely say a ninth degree initiate of our range is no where near a planetary logos in stature?
Delta: Correct. Because it has to go through a whole other kingdom in nature, the solar Pitris, before they start becoming a centre, a major centre in a Planetary Logos.
Alpha: OK. Well that’s rather interesting. In other words what he is just suggesting here, and this is a very interesting thought, is that the solar kingdom, or the solar Pitris, must have their own series of initiations and that they are somehow midway between man and Planetary Logos.
Delta: That is how I take it. Perhaps I am mistaken. But that is how I take it.
Alpha: Well it is an inference that could be drawn.
Gamma: So this Heavenly Man is not the Heavenly Man he is talking about in other places. This Heavenly Man ... (inaudible) solar Pitris.
Beta: If it is Heavenly Men instead of Planetary Logos it might make sense because he embodies or uses certain entities ... to incarnate through.
Alpha: Doesn’t the factor of (inaudible) also?
Beta: Yes, yes, but if you have solar logos on the top level of the first tabulation, that is really difficult. Also on 844 you have several other informing lives of the kingdoms, informing lives of the globe, then minor planetary logoi.
Alpha: The question is, How many of them represent a complete change of kingdom and how many of them are just sort of qualitative. … This solar kingdom, as far as I can see, is a Solar level informing life of a kingdom in nature. It would seem to be informing life of a kingdom on all planets.
Beta: These seem to be compulsive or hosts as well, but then they must have a central entity, they must have a central space or Yajna.
Alpha: OK. This is a very great problem we probably can’t figure out here, its the question to which, the degree to which, every entity is a host. … Except for the ultimate atom or the ultimate particle – the ultimate smallest possible entity in cosmos – which from a quantum point of view cannot be a host because it is a limited, finite cosmos.
Beta: We get our atom …
Alpha: Our atom is a host; our atom is a tremendously composite being. … And the ultimate physical atom is a host of ultimate astral atoms, and on and on and on, until we get to the ultimate particle of the cosmos about which nothing has been said.
Delta: The solar Pitris, being the next goal, the next level, you could just turn back a page to 843 and there is a huge first paragraph near the bottom of that huge first paragraph. It says:
“It must not be forgotten here that the work of the solar Pitris from their point of view, is not primarily the evolution of man, but is the process of their own development within the plan of the solar Logos. The evolution of the human race is, for them, but a method.”
I feel they are a whole discreet class of entities going on … nine initiations.
Alpha: But they are a whole discreet class of entities which the human being need not join in his next phase. Only 80% of human beings will join the solar Pitris class, maybe 75%. Which is, you know, this is interesting.
Gamma: What is going to happen to the others?
Alpha: And not only that, not all lives are listed here because ...
Beta: Sirius.
Alpha: Well, they don’t have to go to Sirius ... they don’t have to become planetary logoi ... although some few will. Hence we will skip the solar Pitris class ... and become a ray. Go on the path of magnetic work.
Beta: What about other planets?
Alpha: Go to other planets in preparation for other paths.
Delta: ... different cosmic paths, in other words. … So when we say that this is the Decision at the sixth initiation … consummated in the ninth?
Alpha: Not entirely. Decided at the sixth, but not all beings take the eighth and ninth initiation within our planetary sphere; it is considered to be too difficult. It is not that people don’t take the eighth and ninth initiation but within our planetary sphere it is extraordinarily difficult so it is possible to veer off and take those expansions ...
Delta: So much for a sentimental spoof for the year 2001 might be the masters talking in 2001, So, “What are you doing after you graduate?” “No ... what are you doing?”
Alpha: “I have decided to stay at home and take care of a few things that are hanging over.” Of course what is interesting about the path of Earth service is that it is a limited path and that only certain vacancies are available.
Gamma: Yes, you know, just 63 masters …
Alpha: 63 masters … in a lodge. But then again, that is nice, except if you extrapolate. If you extrapolate that there are 49 ashrams with supposedly masters more or less at the heart of them except for a few arhats. And if even DK has five masters in his ashram, the numbers would expand beyond the 63. Could one extrapolate on that basis, if one says that a master can have a number of other masters working with him we would have more than 63 masters in a lodge, unless that is just such an exception that DK has five.
Delta: Where was that 63 figure cited ... or how was that cited?
Gamma: It is said in Masonry and it is said in this here (inaudible). There are more than 63 masters working for humanity.
Alpha: Except for the 105 kumaras whose places are taken by masters now. Unless they are not technically considered masters if they have gone into chohanship, or whatever. Because among the kumaras there were those who are beyond the fifth degree. So maybe it is being very technical about saying only 63 master, but the other degrees are present.
By the way 63 is a fantastic number because the two numbers of completion are, in multiplication, in that number. … 7 x 9 is really important, the seven sevens and nines.
Although, what I want to say about the chart on page 844 is that, clearly, certain kingdoms or certain orders of entities are not really included here. Rays, you know what I mean. What does it mean to go on to the cosmic path of magnetic work? That is not included.
Beta: It says, on 843, a paragraph which stands by itself:
“Perfected men are in the councils of the planetary Logos of their particular ray; the solar Pitris are in the council of the solar Logos.”
Alpha: Exactly. So what Delta said about solar lives ... Ahhh! Wait a second! That was most interesting. Why don’t we extend the idea that the vibratory level of the solar life is on the atmic plane. This could correlate … some connection between the triads (the fleur de lis), and the solar lives. The solar lives as they manifest upon the manasic plane may be called, may be related to the fifth hierarchy. (Look at this table of creative hierarchies.)
But it is by the rejection of the triads that a man precipitates himself into the eighth sphere, right? In other words, the third creative hierarchy is called the triads. And it is by the rejection of the triads that a man precipitates himself into the eighth sphere. So, it is also by rejection of the solar angels that a man precipitates himself into the eighth sphere. … So there is an equivalence here.
What I am trying to say is suppose you stick the solar lives on the atmic plane, monadically. In other words, suppose you say that their vibration is on the atmic plane. This would be a very interesting way of connecting them to the spiritual triads, to the triads on the hierarchy table, because I have always been struck by the fact that, Who are those triads anyway? And why should a man go into the eighth sphere if he rejects the triads. …
Beta: Because it is part of the planetary constitution or a solar constitution and it does serve as a cut off point. That is the whole nature of evil in a sense.
Alpha: Yeah, and it is. So interesting that it is connected with the number eight, the number three … But who are they? Do you know how much Blavatsky says about them? One line. You turn to the Secret Doctrine where group number three is discussed of the creative hierarchies. She has only one line about them, which I thought is amazingly scanty. Now later DK says more.
Delta: What do you mean by the eighth sphere? …
Alpha: OK, by eighth sphere one either means the lower manasic plane as a segregated unit. Or, one means a level of vibration so low that it is not included among our seven planes because it is vestigial.
Beta: It is cut off. It implies humans cutting themselves off from their own souls.
Alpha: Yeah. That is right, from their own souls.
Delta: Are you saying it is avitchi?
Alpha: Avitchi … Now the interesting thing is, from a certain point of view, materiality itself, dense materiality can be considered as an eighth sphere. …
Gamma: Avitchi is what? I don’t know what it means.
Alpha: Well, it means waveless. It is the negative correspondence to parabrahman. In a way, waveless. You see, the very highest state that you can achieve is so rapid that it is waveless, and the very lowest state you can achieve is so nothing that it is waveless. It is like nothing, negation.
Gamma: It is not in one of the planes?
Alpha: Thats … thats … Yes, he says the ill-fated thirteenth, number thirteen, has to do with the fact that the fifth creative hierarchy is dual. So part of the fifth creative hierarchy manifests in relation to the lower mental planes, and part to the higher mental planes. Anyway, this is an issue that has been on my mind, I don’t say we can solve it, but I wonder if there is something about the solar lives that include hierarchy three that’s and a dual hierarchy five. Three and five.
And he also said that we came from a solar system where there are levels of matter about which we know nothing. And I am wondering if somehow they don’t fall almost all the way through our seven principled planes and get involved with some level of matter that is so dense that we can’t even deal with them.
Delta: It talks about lower elemental things, that the monster being put back in its place [was why] our Solar Logos, out of compassion, incarnated and roused something that shouldn’t have been roused.
Beta: ... the beast from its den.
Delta: Yeah.
Alpha: And the Planetary Logos made the same mistake. And the Buddha made the same mistake. Premature compassion is very dangerous.
Delta: Let that be a lesson to you in inviting too many people!
Alpha: Oh, but it is so true. It’s a lack of co-measurement, and a lack of knowledge of capabilities.
Gamma: Yeah, it is a defect of the second ray.
Alpha: Yes, it is a defect of the second ray. And both of them are second ray souls. Both the Solar Logos and the Planetary Logos.
Delta: The Buddha and the Planetary Logos are dispelled with second ray glamours.
Beta: The immediate problem is getting people out of the four fold mental unit into the buddhic, for this round. From the fourth to the transition, fifth. Otherwise we could have a failure like the moon chain, to a certain extent. I mean, it could aggravate that.
Alpha: You see that is like the eighth sphere. … Where is this?
Beta: Well … he gives it an insubstantiation of the humans that pass the stage of pitris ( page 878-879). It talks about, actually he is talking about the solar angels, and before the causal body is completely destroyed the four groups that are the heart of the sun, the three higher, to the central spiritual sun, or the head of the sun.
Alpha: There are different types of solar angels, right?
Beta: This is true. This is the kama and the manasic angels, in a sense, but this is at the end of manifestation. At the top of 879:
“The Pitris who formed the egoic body of a human being do not–alone and isolated–form planetary Logoi. The forty-nine groups of solar fires concerned in the great work are those spoken of, and they become the forty-nine planetary Logoi in connection with seven solar systems.”
So this is, in a sense (… the host, yeah), but also I think it implies that ... pitris, that we could become in a future system ... that can be bypassed in the sense of either going to the heart or to the head. Because if you go to the heart then that means that you have to be breathed out by Sirius. You go to the head and you, perhaps, don’t ...
Alpha: ... go to the head of what?
Beta: ... the central spiritual sun. The head centre.
Delta: Why do we associate Sirius with the heart if is on the cosmic mental plane?
Beta: The twelve petalled lotus of the egoic body ... its the middle principle on the mental plane.
Alpha: Sirius is ... what? Wait ....I don’t see.
Beta: The three fold mental constitution, Sirius represents the egoic body of the Solar Logos. It is not the pure abstract mind or manasic permanent atom, which is probably more Uranus associated.
Alpha: But it can’t really represent that. I mean all it can be is … Sirius is its own entity. Doesn’t it just feed that?
Beta: Yeah, exactly ... but it also ...
Delta: It is in a manner of speaking a twelve-petalled lotus on the cosmic mental plane.
Beta: It is like Venus. It co-ordinates all the egoic affairs on the planet.
Alpha: It does co-ordinate ... yes it co-ordinates, OK, Venus may have a place within the logoic quaternary rather than be a heart centre. It may be a solar plexus centre.
Beta: But as a scheme or as a chain, and ...
Alpha: ... as a scheme within the solar logos.
Beta: Exactly. It gets synthesised into one of the higher planets.
Alpha: ... probably Neptune.
Beta: Yes, in the higher four, the tetraktys, well it would be the sun and the three synthesising planets probably. But, what does the sun veil? Another incarnation.
Alpha: OK. ... Wait a second now, one of the things we are going to have to take out is what each planet represents within the solar system in this incarnation of the Solar Logos.
Delta: What chakra it represents? What scheme?
Alpha: What chakra a scheme represents in the present incarnation of the Solar Logos. We are going to have to take that up. [Dinner break coming up] but, before we leave …
What we have done was to assume that between man, a Heavenly Man and a Solar Logos, between man and a Heavenly Man there may be a whole other order of kingdoms that has vibratory power on the atmic plane, light on the buddhic plane (which is interesting), sound on the mental plane, and colour on the astral plane. See, so there is a great challenge there. And Delta is suggesting that this might be the kingdom of solar lives.
Then what this led us into is a consideration of the kingdoms and their progress on page 844. And we discussed therefore whether all human beings would necessarily become solar Pitris or whether there were other lines of progress for them.
We also concluded that not all groups of lives were listed either on 844 or on 331 ... but there are whole different groups of lives that could possibly be listed.
Beta: One is the logos. One is the Heavenly Man. And one is man (simple). So are there, yeah, plane factors, plane schemes?
Gamma: Here you don’t have the egoic lotus. (inaudible)
Alpha: This is the egoic lotus. The Heavenly Man manifests through the egoic lotuses and not on the mental plane, per se. In particular, suppose you get a solar life in there and it comes down onto the mental plane in terms of sound. Does that tell us anything about how a causal body was gathered? In other words, what is the relationship between a solar life and a causal body? This is the question. A solar life is related to a causal body how? Solar life is the consciousness, the subjective life, and a causal body is some sort of vehicle. In the beginning was the word …
(end of tape 4)
Alpha: Beta began to differentiate between angels, pitris and lords. This is one of those differentiations similar to the differentiation within the planetary logoic life of … logoic, Heavenly Man, Spirits before the Throne, Ray Lords and entities. So basically what Beta is offering is a view of these composite beings as they manifest on different planes. There is a great discrimination going on here and we have to see whether we can understand the various levels of manifestation of the Solar Kingdom, or the Solar Lives (let’s call it that), and then those of the Planetary Logoi.
Another thing too is ...we have to ask ourselves whether members of the seventh kingdom, who are called Solar Lives, are the same lives as the Solar Angels, or whether, in fact, the solar lives are evolving along the human line and the solar angels are a member of a completely different order. Because, in a waywhat is going on is a Chohan is a member of the Planetary Spirits, the sixth kingdom. When a Chohan moves to its next phase, has it entered the Agnishvattas or is it simply Shamballic lives which were former humans?
Beta: Is it just a question of identification with those lives and merging with them at some …
Alpha: ... well we will get into it.
(tape interrupted)
Alpha: All right, Good evening. This is the bitter end of the first day, and we have been dealing with very abstract studies. Around the supper table we discussed the growing influence of Polaris. What else did we discuss? The orientation of our solar system towards Vega.
Beta: Yeah, it is the relation of Krishna to Vega.
Alpha: Discussed the Star of Toulan. What else?
Epsilon: The initiation of the Planetary Logos, minor and nearly initiations.
Alpha: OK. And many more good things. Now the time has come by popular demand, no longer to be quite so abstract this evening.
And as a result, certain astrological conversations have begun to bubble up to the surface. And this is all engineered by Delta who wants to bust: what do you want to bust, Delta?
Delta: I just want to have esoteric astrology actually addressed, the issues that esoteric astrology addresses, which are the initiations, rays, the bodies the dimensions we exist in.
Alpha: OK. So we are going to put it to all those people out there in the world who are distorting the subject, and we are going to straighten that out tonight so as to allow them no escape into the line of least resistance. And, you know, whatever initiation the Solar Logos or Planetary Logos is working towards at the moment is not the issue of the evening. So, Delta, you want us to go on pause?
(tape paused)